<p>There have been a lot of posts on CC from internationals bemoaning how competitive/small the international admissions are and how (most) US colleges are not need blind for internationals. My question is, is this fair?</p>
<p>I certainly think so. People can go pointing fingers all they want at how mean America is but other countries do the exact same thing! Try applying to Oxford or University of Spain. You WILL pay thousands of euros more than EU residents and the admissions proccess will be stiff. I think this is fair.</p>
<p>The same thing happened in Austria when they started accepting way more German students than Austrians (because the EU has an 'equal consideration' clause for universities and because the Austrian med school is easier than the German one) the result was that manymany Austrians were forced to leave their own country and go abroad to study. Should people be denied admission to a top school in their own home country because of a flood of hopeful internationals? </p>
<p>I like international students. Many are very fun, interesting, and smart people but I don't believe they should be given the same considerationg in admission as citizens.</p>
<p>It's as fair as state schools preferring students from their own states; it sucks if you don't benefit personally, but of course it's fair. American colleges were not created for South Korean or Chinese international education; they were created for AMERICAN students. Quit b*tching, foreigners, unless you're as equally against schools in England, Japan and India for educating (gasp) THEIR OWN CITIZENS over foreigners. Hate everybody equally.</p>
<p>Quite a strong opinion? Even if it could be a little offensive.</p>
<p>My take on it is that colleges should primarily (though not only) educate those who are going to stay in-country and remain citizens. It's not an "AMERICA FO' AMERICANZ" sort of statement but honestly, there's little sense in investing in thousands of people who are going to come, finish college, and then go back to their own countries.</p>
<p>Miss has got a point. Should we really pay tax dollars for people who aren't going to help our citizens or economy after college (those who move to other countries) and is it fair to take away the spots from American students who are going to continue to live and work here? </p>
<p>I am getting the impression that you think internationals have a harder time applying and getting into foreign (in respect to the international) universities. In many Asian countries, internationals actually have a easier time getting into the top asian universities because the universities want diversity in the student body.</p>
<p>Wolfbane, I don't know much about India, but I do know top Japanese universities prefer less qualified internationals over qualified Japanese. </p>
<p>Anyways, many internationals, upon receiving US education stay in America and contribute to American society. Some do go back to their country of origin, but I have heard (from my history teacher) most stay in America. </p>
<p>Instead of spending money on useless ***** like wars, conflict with other countries, and ineffective plans to control environmental problems, the government should set aside money to educate internationals who would become global leaders in the future. Plus, top American unversities (ex. HYPS) maintain their reputation globally BECAUSE many global leaders attend these universities.</p>
<p>That people don't think we internationals should be allowed to come to the US for college. </p>
<p>It's just that the US offers an unrivalled college experience - something which we DEFINITELY can't find in our home countries (if we could, why would we wanna go abroad then?). What's more, internationals bring a potful of diversity to every campus. And diversity=definite plus point...which college doesn't like to have a diverse student body?</p>
<p>Tetrisfan, I never said that internationals CANT come. I said that they should be subjected to higher standards than citizens. The 'need blind international' thing I can handle but when internationals start to make up more than 10% of the population then I'm getting a little mad.</p>
<p>And of course a lot of people ant to come to American colleges. We have some of the best in the world. But Americans ALSO want to go to those colleges, which is where the problem lies.</p>
<p>Not to be offensive, but... how many world-ranked universities are in Asia? And how many Americans are just dying to get into the University of Tokyo? Not many! If I and some other girl went to an employer and we were both exactly qualified only I had a diploma from Harvard and she had one from University of Hong Kong, who would get chosen? Probably me.</p>
<p>The fact is, foreign diplomas don't help Americans as they should. Employers are leery and many have never even heard of some of the top-ranked foreign universities.</p>
<p>There is an excess in foreign demand for American universities and a lack of American demand for foreign universities. So if the standards for internationals were brought down to the citizen level, we'd have a LOT more internationals crowding the universities but the exact same Americans would be competing to get in because they do not WANT to go abroad.</p>
<p>I am obviously not a 'one world' advocate. Despite what you may think, almost all international students go back to their countries after college.</p>
<p>i think it's completely fair. American universities should continue to focus on educating Americans. i think it's fair that their admission process is not need-blind. people here already have a big enough issue with paying taxes for public schools if they send their kids to private schools, so what makes you think that ANYONE/a vast majority people would ever be chill with paying for internationals to come here and study?</p>
<p>
[quote]
In many Asian countries, internationals actually have a easier time getting into the top asian universities because the universities want diversity in the student body.
[/quote]
horrible comparison. how many people in the United States really want to go to school in China? LIKE NO ONE lol! how many Chinese want to go to school in America? MILLIONS!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Anyways, many internationals, upon receiving US education stay in America and contribute to American society. Some do go back to their country of origin, but I have heard (from my history teacher) most stay in America.
[/quote]
that's only because if they leave they'll have a MUCH, MUCH harder time coming back to the United States.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Instead of spending money on useless ***** like wars, conflict with other countries, and ineffective plans to control environmental problems, the government should set aside money to educate internationals who would become global leaders in the future. Plus, top American unversities (ex. HYPS) maintain their reputation globally BECAUSE many global leaders attend these universities.
[/quote]
that's ridiculous... we don't even have enough money to pay for all of our citizens to go to college. are you aware of how much debt people have to go into to pay for their tuition? anyways, foreign governments already sponsor and send many of their top students to universities in the United States. and your last statement isn't even true; schools rarely publicize [blank] global leader attended our school. such a marketing technique would alienate many potential applicants or, if the leader is shady, damage the school's reputation.</p>
<p>Haha, I don't agree with the war or anything, but you're saying that instead of paying for war (argueably national defense), the US should pay to educate students from other countries? It's good to share our resources to an extent, but not to the point that it would hurt the US...</p>
<p>I think internationals should be able to come here for college, but the reason why top schools are in the US is that they're for US citizens, primarily. If top students from other countries didn't have more obstacles than an US citizen, our colleges wouldn't be able to handle the influx of international students. All the top students from everywhere obviously can't come to US colleges- we don't have room! There's a finite amount of space available.</p>
<p>Heck, top colleges are already becoming relatively unachievable for US citizens. It's caused by our population increase (obviously not by internationals- I'm NOT saying that), but suddenly allowing many more internationals (much more than there already are) wouldn't help the problem...</p>
<p>And, erm, just to point it out: Even if school's aren't need blind, some give VERY good financial aid packages to internationals. Sure, they have to be REALLY good to get in, but once they are in, they're set. Anyone could find a couple schools where the average fin aid paid to international students is higher than domestic students.</p>
<p>International here.
There are fewer intl students applying to top schools than US applicants, so I think ppl should take that to consideration.
[quote]
Quit b*tching, foreigners, unless you're as equally against schools in England, Japan and India for educating (gasp) THEIR OWN CITIZENS over foreigners. Hate everybody equally.
<p>As an Austrian (with a brother studying medicine), I have to clarify that matter from our point of view.
There are 80 000 000 Gemans and 8 000 000 Austrians.
In Germany there is the so-called 'Numerus Clausus', a kind of minimum GPA, and people who are below it just don't get accepted.</p>
<p>In Austria, there isn't such a rule, so a lot of people from Germany applied there - not because of lower educational standards, but because of lower admission restrictions. The percentage of drop-outs was unusually high (of course, students with lower grades..) and the percentage of Austrians was low (only the grades count..)</p>
<p>So they designed a test to restrict German applications a bit (which is a very diverse topic, as people here are terrified of doing anything that could sound a bit like discrimination - understandable, if you look at our history). It is a test Austrians also have to take, but it favours them a bit (in my opinion), because it taken from the Austrians school curriculum.</p>
<p>The tuition is the same for everyone, (and it's cheap, I would have to pay 30x more at my college, if I hadn't got a scholarship).</p>
<p>And I think it's the same everywhere, they do have their reasons, and they aren't stupid: If you are that good, you will get into the college of your dreams, if you aren't - well.</p>
<p>The way I see it, international students enrich the cultural and intellectual offerings of a university. That's not just in the US but in any country. They expose local/domestic students to new cultures, values and ways of thinking.</p>
<p>This said, I agree with two concepts:</p>
<p>1) Aid should only be given to international students if (a) a special private scholarship fund has been created specifically for international students or (b) if a university has met the financial needs of all US citizens attending said university.</p>
<p>2) A university should limit its international undergraduate student population to 10% of the total undergraduate student population.</p>