American, Reed or Franklin & Marshall?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I don’t know about you, but from where I see it, I’d not want to apply to a college, if they purposely hid the drugs from me, just because I was a prospective student. It screams hypocrisy to me. However, if the student told them he’d appreciate having no drugs around, then it’s a different story. I really doubt they forced drugs onto him or anything though. Reed doesn’t really have a problem at hand if one was to infer from the information you cited-you’ll get people into drugs at all colleges similar to Reed and some not so similar. There’s no point perpetuating the myth that Reed has a “drug problem” just because some Reedies didn’t hide drugs from a prospective student-that would be trivialising the issue. Yes, Reed has a problem but for entirely different reasons than that. Besides, I’m sure, marthamydearest is at least somewhat aware of what Reed is all about, if she applied and was accepted.</p>

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<p>Well…I was actually referring to F&M being more “preppie” and politically toward the middle than I was drug use when I said “conservative”. I expected students everywhere know how to party these days, as it was in the “old” days too. </p>

<p>Like education, alcohol or drug use at college is a personal decision. It will be what you make of it.</p>

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<p>Reed is one of my favorite schools. But … <start soapbox=“”> Its druggie reputation is a turn-off. People who think of themselves as liberals/progressives/intellectuals really need to examine how the country’s appetite for drugs is feeding destructive behaviors, from family and neighborhood decline to health care costs to the horror going on in Mexico. If hard (?) drugs are in nearly plain view in a dormitory refrigerator, that suggest to me a pretty high level of tolerance for, maybe a failure to seriously examine, the problem. Let’s say we view this as a public health problem, not primarily as a legal one. Seeing hard drugs in a dormitory refrigerator is analogous to seeing bruises on school age children. It’s a red flag that responsible people are ignoring a need for helpful intervention. The first step prospective students and parents can take is to ask about substance free dorms, even insist on them as a condition for matriculation. Send a positive signal. .</start></p>

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<p>^Reed maybe one of your favourite colleges, but it does seem like you ignore what it’s all about, and if what you’re suggesting is put into practice, Reed as a college would not exist. Making all dorms substance free is a ridiculous way to prevent drug use (and I say this as someone who has no history with drugs and might end up staying in a substance free dorm), in any case. It’s like the legality of drugs and criminality of drug use-does it make drugs any less available? Like I said, drugs exist on all campuses, whether we’d like to admit it or not, and to what extent can college authorities police students? You’re not dealing with five year old kids here whom you try to discipline. Besides, what does it suggest if drugs are otherwise used on campus, but a college instructs students to hide them for prospective students? That’s hypocrisy and potentially more harmful to the student than having those drugs in view. Reed lives by the “Honor Principle”, and we respect each individual’s right. I doubt you’ll find anyone at Reed who’ll say they’ve been forced to consume drugs. Everyone at Reed who does drugs is doing it of their own volition-honestly curbing that freedom is going to do more harm than good. Pea’s information is flimsy; it’s going to become a case of Chinese Whispers as to what exactly those drugs lying in the refrigerator were. Whatever the case may be (hard or not), I don’t think Reed’s “drug problem” is significantly worse than most colleges in America. I had a friend who had a cokehead as a roommate his freshman year at USC, yet seemingly Reed is the only bastion of hard drugs left in America-which I find ludicrous. You can be at the most cloistered college in the world and still get high; perhaps it would be even more exciting than doing drugs at a college like Reed.</p>

<p>PS. You might want to reconsider concluding they were hard drugs. No one knows and no one should speculate as if this is some gossip mill.</p>

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<p>ctParent2006, I agree with you. Drugs and Alcohol aren’t exclusively one college’s problems, even though some of us might like to believe they are. </p>

<p>There are Reedies who don’t indulge in drugs or even alcohol, just for the record and there’s a sizeable number of them. Fact is, you can get drugs and alcohol at Reed, just as you can at F&M or American, or any other college for that matter. It’s not so much the college as the individual, and a lot of people tend to get the two mixed up.</p>

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<p>I’m not suggesting if someone goes to Reed they will somehow be more inclined to try drugs, I don’t think that. What I think is that a student with a conservative ideology might not want to be at Reed for that reason.</p>

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<p>Absolutely, my refrigerator story was an anecdote and it should be given as much weight as any other anecdote, maybe interesting but treated with a healthy degree of skepticism.</p>

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<p>Good point.</p>

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<p>Maybe, of maybe he or she was just aware of Reed’s stellar academics. I was a little concerned when I saw American University and F&M on her list also. If the OP is someone who doesn’t want to do drugs but doesn’t care if other people do and wants to go to a school with first rate academics then Reed would be a perfect place for her.</p>

<p>Paradox – I think you are getting too upset by what I was saying in my posts. You’re taking what I said to an extreme I never intended them to be. I don’t know what Reed should do, I think the issue is complex for just the reasons you site, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a problem.</p>

<p>tk21769 said what I wanted to say in post #27 and said it a lot better than I could have.</p>

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<p>Of course, but to what extent is an addict volitional? I know everyone isn’t an addict, some people can do drugs and walk away, but some people become addicted. To me it isn’t really an issue of whether they are old enough to police themselves, addicts can’t necessarily police themselves. I’m talking in general terms now, not specific to Reed.</p>

<p>Again, I’ve just put this issue out there, not so much intending to cast dispersions on Reed, but more as a point of information.</p>

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<p>Pea, my only contention is that you’ll get “druggies” everywhere. Granted Reed’s reputation is more broadcasted and perhaps its problems with it are graver too, but I know a few people at F&M, and the “partying” culture-drugs, alcohol etc. involved is not muted at all. Drugs are all over. Reed is not an exception, but neither are other colleges. Reed, in fact, is in better position than most because while you may find drugs around you, you’ll never feel the pressure to do them by peers; as a Reedie you should know that the Honor Principle allows for redressals if one ever feels uncomfortable at Reed. </p>

<p>I agree with your point about addiction, but ultimately, how much can a college do? The death two years ago was a wake up call for Reed’s authorities and it is stricter with hard drugs, but to cast blame entirely on it would be incorrect because all these cases of addiction could happen anywhere. It wasn’t because of the college’s “lax policies”, that kids got/get addicted. In fact, some Portlanders have raised concerns that isn’t so much Reed’s problem (sadly only its problems get highlighted by the news media), but drugs are a city-wide problem and there have been a startling number of deaths outside of the Reed community in Portland. Like I said, there are wider social nets to be examined here, and Reed is not entirely blameless, but ultimately it comes down to the individual-even if Reed was draconian with its drug rules, there would be people who’d find a way out. That’s true of every college and not just Reed. However, to perpetuate the Reed “druggie” myth means a lot of people don’t look beyond that, whereas it isn’t so much a problem because even if you’re extremely straight edge you could survive your years at Reed without ever having to consume drugs/alcohol/cigarettes-I know it may not seem believable, but there are several people who do. So, the information is not really needed as “something special”. You can be academically challenged and sober, despite what everyone else might have you believe. </p>

<p>As for tk21769’s solutions, I think the system of universal substance free dormitories are the worst solution to a “drug problem”. If anything, it just exacerbates the issues you’re trying to deal with. I don’t know what other solution there is, but I think the Honor Council and Students for Sensible Drug Policy are on their way to using the Honor Principle as a constructive tool as opposed to a dormant and sometimes destructive one.</p>

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<p>Excellent post Paradox, I totally agree. I don’t think tk21769 was lobbying for universal substance free dorms. I read tk21769’s post as students should have the option for a substance free dorm which I understand Reed has. That is a great idea for students who want it.</p>

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Reed has existed for more than 100 years. For at least half that time, drug use was not very prevalent on American college campuses. I think it is entirely consistent with a campus culture marked by toleration, and a certain edgy quality, to raise concerned voices about substance abuse. If that’s already happening, then good.

I never suggested making all dorms substance free. I certainly would not suggest doing so by fiat. What I am suggesting is that, if you agree with me that substance abuse is a serious problem on college campuses, and you are determined not to use them yourself, then you have a right to make your voice heard. You have a right to request, and would be taking a positive step by insisting, that enough substance-free dorm space be made available for all who want them (if it is not available already). You have a right to make others aware that this option exists and to try to increase the demand for it. I’m talking about positive peer pressure and market demand.<br>

I did not leap to that conclusion. That was the point of my parenthetical question mark in post #23.</p>

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<p><< American is in a very nice but somewhat remote part of DC. >></p>

<p>That would be my favorite “remote” part of DC. In one of the best neighborhoods in the city. North of Georgetown, not far from Metro. Near the VP’s house and the Embassies. </p>

<p>American has great internships and a schedule that both allows and promotes those intership opportunities. We looked there, but have no direct affiliation. It was too close to home.</p>

<p>Do we know where the OP is from and whether cost of living and travel costs are a consideration? When visiting American it was obvious that the city location and night life were going to be more affordable with deeper pockets!</p>

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<p>I agree that Reed has always had a freewheeling attitude. However, throughout its history, and particularly during the 60s, 70s and 80s when hippie Reed was at its peak, there have been students who have been able to stay away from substances. Pea, I think you mentioned you did stay away and I’ve heard of other people as well. So while there may have been a huge amount of drug users on campus, it was always possible to abstain if you wished to. Also, a distinction has to be made between casual drug use and addiction. What really needs to be tackled by Reed is identifying addicts and dealing with them on a personal basis-which is slowly happening.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry misunderstood what you tried to express, but I wasn’t aware that you didn’t know there were already substance free dorms. I think almost everyone who requests substance free accomodation does get it. It’s advertised on all housing information and forms, so I guess students are well aware that there is an option. In fact, it’s advertised as a great dorm, even for people who might indulge in “substance” consumption once in a while, but want a more tight-knit, quieter community of people to live with it. </p>

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<p>You went from using a parenthetical question mark to not using it in the next sentence that mentioned the nature of the drugs. It’s only a slight glitch, but sometimes people jump to conclusions really fast, and I was just making sure.</p>

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<p>Thank you for all of the responses!</p>

<p>Mom22039: I live in Houston, Texas and so of course I am considering the travel costs, personal costs, summer costs (I will have to find/pay for housing, maybe summer programs). </p>

<p>Pea: I was very much aware of Reed’s “reputation” with drugs. But as many have said, I think it’s a problem ANYWHERE you go (though I have read/heard that American is a more “clean” campus) but, unless everyone is an addict, I don’t find it that much of a problem. </p>

<p>In the case of Reed’s drugs (since so many have commented on it) I did an overnight in December and I did not meet/see anyone who looked in any way under the influence of drugs. It was not mentioned. It seems that Reed has had this stereotype put on it and it has stuck. I’m not too worried about it. </p>

<p>ctparent2006: thank you for your comment about F&M’s government department! I think that, until now, I had seriously underestimated F&M’s reputation. Both American and F&M were my backup schools going into the college admisssions process, so I am still trying to break out of that mindset. </p>

<p>I think my main concern, now that I have gotten college, is what graduate school will I get into after each of these colleges? This is hardest to analyze because the colleges are pretty quiet about this. This is the last, missing factor in my decisions.</p>

<p>I think that I would be most satisfied with my undergraduate education (in terms of intensity and quality of education) in the following order: Reed, American, F&M. I come from a high school with a rigorous curriculum, and I want my undergrad to be similarly rewarding in terms of available, involved professors as well as an education that can really serve as a reliable foundation in the real world. </p>

<p>I haven’t visited AU, but when I visited F&M, I sat-in on a Socio class with senior-year students and I was not impressed. Their responses to the prof’s questions and discussions were really basic and did not follow the professor’s efforts to create a deep, intellectual discussion. Can anyone correct me if I’m wrong? I realize this is just one class, but does anyone have any more positive experiences with F&M’s classes and student body? </p>

<p>I sat in a class at Reed (political economics) and foudn it amazingly inspiring. The students backup up their discussion with evidence from their readings as well as their own political observations and philosophies. Even afterwards the professor stayed with me to answer a few of my questions. </p>

<p>I realize that these are very simple examples and that classes differ from each other (it may just have been bad luck with the F&M class). any information contradicting my observations (or new information about AU, it seems to be relatively, the easiest of the three) would be greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>marthamydearest, as far as graduate schools are concerned, I think you could get into great graduate schools from any college as long as you make best use of the opportunities they offer and excel academically. I know Reed has this reputation of being golden with graduate schools, but again this is one of those things in the college experience, that is more dependent on the individual rather than the college. Just my two cents. Good Luck making your choice!</p>

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<p>thanks paradox, that’s reassuring! </p>

<p>But I just harbor this feeling that in terms of opportunities (internships, jobs), F&M would have the least of these, simply because of its location (Lancaster, PA, two hours from any big city) and its connections. Does anyone have any information on this? This, too, has been information difficult to extract from individual admissions offices.</p>

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<p>[Franklin</a> & Marshall - Career Services](<a href=“F&M Page Not Found”>F&M Page Not Found)</p>

<p>This is the site you might want to look at and the office you should e-mail/call with specific questions about internships and the like.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the link, paradox. Do you know what Reedies do in terms of jobs/internships/programs during the summer? If I go to Reed, the summer would be the ideal (and only) time to get this kind of experience.</p>

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<p>Reedies interested in non-profit/public sector related work, do apply for internships at DC and other places. So that is a possibility. Reedies also focus a lot on research work-either they’ll join a professor at Reed or apply for research assistantships at larger universities. Many also travel abroad either for research or for volunteer/intern work. Summer is also the time for earning some hard cash- many people will take up paying jobs. There are a variety of options available beyond all of these as well, and I don’t think Reed, particularly holds you back from anything.</p>

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<p>Great, thanks!</p>