American students educated outside the US?

<p>I got such good, good advice before on this board, that I had to come back. Our son is in 11th grade, a US citizen, has only attended a Canadian highschool, and is still interested in both Canadian and US schools at this point. No financial aid needed.</p>

<p>I trust you all much more than his school counselor. She said it's very hard for international students to get accepted into US schools. Is that true? They seem to place well but I guess she argues the odds are stacked against you as you are competing for few 'international' spots.</p>

<p>But more importantly, I think because my son is American, he's not considered international. Isn't that right? </p>

<p>All other things being equal, is an American educated abroad at a disadvantage over an American educated in the US? I should note his school is very well known, old private school that sends quite a proportion to top US schools. </p>

<p>I can't seem to find much on this. Many college websites note how many students are from which states, and how many are international. But very little information on US students educated outside the US. The one exception was Rice, and it was really nice and inviting to see they made that distinction. Of course I have no idea what the acceptance rates are with these distinctions...</p>

<p>Hi! We are in the same boat as you, except that we have lived in different places, now in Asia.</p>

<p>Our school is well known and has good placements in the US, not as much in the HYPS, but many into Northwestern, Cornell, Tufts, Duke, Emory, BU and so on.</p>

<p>They tell us that our kids go via the international quota, which is a bummer, but, having said that, if the college is looking to add more flavor into their mix, they will pick our kids. </p>

<p>Also when I compare the Naviance data from our school to the actual college website, I find that kids with a bit lower stats also get accepted from our school. For e.g. if the college website says that their avg GPA was 3.8, I see that a lot of our 3.4 kids got in there. Reason could be the course rigor and the fact that our school only adds 0.5 to AP courses and zero to honors.</p>

<p>Which province are you in? What schools would he be trying for?</p>

<p>I know Canadians at HYP, Brown, Colgate, Berkeley, UCLA, USC, UCSD, UW, WWU, TX, Colorado College, MIT, UMIch, etc, Big 10 schools, etc. Many are rowers so that is a big help, so is hockey. Seems many Canadian families are happy for the athletic scholarship, but also I have seen need based aid packages at B, P, C and others.</p>

<p>If he is a US citizen then he does not apply international, but may still not be a resident of any state for in state admissions or in state tuition purposes. If you have retained ties to a state, you would have to check that state school’s residency form to determine whether you qualify as each state & school can have different requirements.</p>

<p>I PMed you.</p>

<p>US citizen and no financial aid? I think he would only add to the mix of whatever college he attends, but grades and stats have to be there as well. Good luck!</p>

<p>Do not forget that Canada has some great schools US kids are applying to ;)</p>

<p>Lurking, I don’t think your son would fall into the international pool. As an US citizen, he would be eligible for admissions and aid under whatever guidelines has for Americans living in America. </p>

<p>The major advantage that expatriate Americans have in applying to US colleges is that they can offer diversity and global perspective without language and visa concerns. This positive may not apply to Canada as the culture is so similar to that of the US. I don’t see it as a negative, however, for a US citizen.</p>

<p>Pixel, My son’s international highschool in an underdeveloped Asian country regularly sends kids to some of the most selective schools worldwide. My understanding was that the Americans were NOT counted as internationals in admissions, though their country of residence may show up in the geographic diversity percentages.</p>

<p>What Somemom points out about not having a home state can be problematic, especially when you’re looking for safeties.</p>

<p>^ You are right about not having instate safeties, plus the fact that we would have to shell out 50k/yr for a so called safety.</p>

<p>When I looked at our school’s acceptance list I saw that HYPS takes only 1-2 kids per year from here since its a small locale for them.</p>

<p>Our HS is over 1200 kids and top 10% should mean that at least 120 should go to top ten, but they don’t and not because they are lacking in grades or ECC. Its just because we are not in the U.S. and we go through the country quota (putting it loosely).</p>

<p>pixel, is that 1200 the entire school or just the senior class?</p>

<p>I think he would be treated by an American at all schools. There are MANY top colleges at which Canadians and those with landed immigrant status go in the same pool as US citizens and green card holders and are NOT considered internationals at all. </p>

<p>So, check on the websites of the colleges he’s interested in. It varies among colleges. For example, the language from Harvard’s site for itnernational students says:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Which clearly implies Canadians are not internationals for admissions purposes.</p>

<p>Info for Canadian residents and citizens on the Dartmouth site states the same–you’re NOT in the international pool. See, e.g. <a href=“Financial Aid”>Financial Aid;

<p>I don’t see why you’re having trouble finding this. Just go to the admissions page at a college, see if it has a search box for the admissions site and put in Canada, It worked at the two schools above for me–hope it does for you too!</p>

<p>Thank you for all your kind help.</p>

<p>Jonri, I’ll try that search function you suggest. My concern was less about finding if Canadians are considered international or not, but more on finding if it helped or hindered a US citizen at a Canadian school (which is somewhat different, or maybe not). Certainly if schools treat applicants from Canada and US as the same it answers my question as citizenship is moot. But if schools treat Canadians as international, I’m not sure that tells me much about my son who is American but at a Canadian school. </p>

<p>I suppose it doesn’t really matter in terms of what he might do, it was more for my own curiosity. And to see if this counselor was right. </p>

<p>I should add I don’t think he’d apply to HYPS. And I have a feeling we’ll end up at a Canadian school because the price is so much more reasonable for us. Such as McGill or U of Toronto. His school has a pretty much 100% acceptance rate at these. </p>

<p>This counselor is terrible. She was wrong about a lot of things in our meeting, but this thread just shows me even more. She was not only wrong, but also so adamant and sure of herself in what she was saying (and talking to me like I was a moron, not realizing I’ve learned a lot on this board). How she works at a school that places well is beyond me. Maybe I just got a dud- I sure hope the others at the school are better than this.</p>

<p>Our senior class is 350 and of that 2 went to Stanford and 1 each went to the other Ivies.</p>

<p>Lurking, I’d suggest that you contact the individual colleges that your son is interested in. I know that my son, who attended school outside of the US 12 out of 13 years, was considered part of the US applicant pool. Had he applied for financial aid, his application would have been treated as any other American’s.</p>

<p>If you are eligible for need based aid, the costs between US and Canadian schools may even out. Not to say that attending McGill or UofToronto would be a hardship. These are wonderful schools. But rather to give your son more financially equal choices.</p>

<p>I know what it’s like to suffer with a counselor who is a fount of misinformation. You don’t want to be constantly challenging and contradicting as your child needs this person on his side. So bear with it and use this board to verify whatever just doesn’t sound right. There are certain grey areas in admissions that vary from school to school and that are subject to interpretation.</p>

<p>Thank you. I will start looking at the specific sites in this regard. We would most definitely be full pay and unfortunately the price is gigantic between the US schools he is interested in and the Canadian ones. I’m not sure its worth the difference for the schools he would be considering (not HYPS and company). Some may be better, but not necessarily better enough to justify the difference.</p>

<p>And yes it was challenging to sit there and listen. Twice I caught myself arguing with her because I couldn’t help myself (what she said didn’t make any sense even from a logic point of view, and several of her stories to back up her claims had to be complete fabrications). But then I realized how pointless and potentially counterproductive it was to our longterm goals.</p>

<p>On what grounds would any US college consider a US citizen as an “Int’l”??? I just don’t think that would/could happen. After all, you wouldn’t be using the international application. You’d be using the citizen/legal resident application.</p>

<p>You would be applying from an “international” location. Your child’s HS transcript will be going from a school which is Non-US based. </p>

<p>Many colleges love to have US citizens educated abroad. Our school send tens to Northwestern, U of Chicago, UIUC, Northeastern, Emory - even with less than 4.0 GPA’s.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You can’t seriously think that 10% of your high school deserves admission to a ‘Top 10’ US university?</p>

<p>The top 10% kids (even though our school does not rank) have 4.2 out of 4.9 GPA, with many AP’s and SAT scores of over 2200. If these students went to a top private school in the US they would stand a better chance. My kid is not one of them, but I know some of them and they are super focussed and smart. Plus they bring the international and cultural experience to the table.</p>