<p>Son is interested in Poli-sci and Intl Relations. Had always wanted to attend school in DC. Recently admitted to American honors and Tulane honors, and just back from a weekend in Tulane. Now wondering if it would be a better fit for him in the south. Any thoughts on the strength or advantages to both schools in the area of poli-sci, and overall college experience, other than the obvious weather and differences in each cities attractions.</p>
<p>I had a similar choice between AU and the University of Illinois, where I could have gone absolutely free. I ended up choosing AU because I thought I could learn more political science in Washington, DC, than in Illinois.</p>
<p>This analogy isn’t perfect, but I think of the choice of a DC school vs. a non-DC school for subjects like political science is like the choice of where to study a language: are you going to learn Spanish faster/better/deeper in Mexico or in Milwaukee? Language and cultural immersion in Mexico is going to do the job better.</p>
<p>At AU, you can’t help but be surrounded by politics and government. This is true of the city and surroundings as well as the other students. Even students who don’t major in political science at AU (say, chemistry) are more likely to have an interest and astuteness in politics than those at other schools. AU is the immersion choice.</p>
<p>While obviously Washington DC is the seat of federal politics, as Tip O’Neill said “All politics is local”. Politics is everywhere, so you really don’t have to be in DC to do it. And let’s face it, the competition for political jobs in DC is fierce. Tulane has a strong department also, with a star professor in James Carville, although admittedly he only teaches one class a year and it is hard to get into. Also, remember that a typical student in most majors only takes about 25% of their courses in their major, the rest being in various distribution requirements and for other interests. So they need to look at the broader picture. With few exceptions for certain highly specialized majors (architecture and engineering come to mind) where students take the majority of their courses in their major or in support of it, an undergraduate school should never be chosen based on which school is “better” in that major. Universities in the USA are not supposed to be trade schools, they are liberal arts institutions where students happen to specialize in a certain area.</p>
<p>Anyway, not trying to run down American in the least, it is a fine school that is extremely strong in these areas of course, and DC is amazing, just amazing in a very different way than New Orleans is. My advice would be for him to attend whichever school he feels fits him best. Tulane is somewhat more academically selective than American, but only slightly. They are very similar in that way as well. If he came away from Honors Weekend at Tulane thinking it was the school for him, then great. He should go to Tulane (assuming he has seen American already). If he has seen both and is still undecided, then he just has to think about all the things that are important to him in all aspects of a college and try to sift through it to see what comes out in the end. If he has not visited American yet, he should do that as soon as possible so he has a fair comparison.</p>
<p>Fallen -Thanks for the response. He visited American a long, long time ago, unfortunately their honors weekend is not until mid-April, but he feels he needs to go back to refresh his mind. All I can say is wow, wow about Tulane. I had never seen the school until this weekend. Every kid there was happy, friendly, helpful, well spoken but most of all such a big fan of the school. We felt a great sense of community. Perhaps you are correct about what an undergrad experience should be like… I just don’t want to squash his love of activism, political speakers, political discussion, which that DC experience may possibly provide more (?) of… though I don’t doubt for a minute he would be intellectually stimulated and challenged and have a fabulous undergrad experience at Tulane…And oh those Azaleas!! Thanks for the advice.</p>
<p>“Universities in the USA are not supposed to be trade schools, they are liberal arts institutions where students happen to specialize in a certain area.”</p>
<p>Who says? Only a third of students at AU major in the liberal arts. If that’s what you are looking for, AU is probably not the best choice. International relations at AU is not a “major”; it’s an entire school.</p>
<p>mini - you misunderstand the term “liberal arts institution” as I am using it, which is the very long held and still common use of the term. It is confusing because of the additional use of the term “liberal arts” to mean certain majors. A “liberal arts” education means a broad based education where you have exposure to all areas of knowledge, such as math, the sciences, foreign languages and cultures, literature, history, philosophy so on and so forth. This is as opposed to many of the European and other universities where you go in as, say, a chemistry major and do little else but take courses towards that profession. Sorry for the confusion, of course I didn’t mean that you don’t have a major or specialize at all. But this is why most USA universities at the level of American, Tulane etc. only require about 10-11 courses out of 40 or so in total be in your major. That’s a liberal arts education, at least as practiced today. It used to be even more rigorous and standardized in terms of a Western Civ education, no matter your major. Now there is far more flexibility, but the spirit is still to get a broad based education.</p>
<p>ecgaltodfw - So glad he liked Tulane so much. One gets that feedback about Tulane students a lot, which is wonderful for an alum and now Tulane parent to hear. The other thing you hear is that more of the Tulane kids wear Tulane clothing than just about anywhere else they visit. There is a ton of school spirit for a school with lousy sports teams, lol. Although they did just commit a lot more money to try and improve that area of the school also, and eventually (although not in your son’s college time I am sure) they will likely build a stadium on campus so they won’t have to play in the Superdome anymore.</p>
<p>Anyway, there is of course a lot of political activism in New Orleans and Louisiana in general, but I certainly won’t compare it to DC for that or speakers and political events. DC wins hands down there, of course. I would only caution a bit that various studies have found that about 70% of students change their major at least once during their college career. No matter how certain they seem now, one has to allow for that possibility. After all, part of the idea is for them to be exposed to things they never could have been before. This is one of the top 2 reasons that so many of us advocate fit over factors like strength in the major, the other being general happiness. I don’t care if Whatsamatta U has a world class department of Alien Studies and that is what you want to major in, if it is in a tiny rural area under 6 feet of snow most of the year and you are a city type that loves the sun, and Fugeddaboutit U is an urban Sun Belt school and has a very good department in Alien Studies, I know who I think wins. College is someplace the student is living nearly full time for 4 years (at least). One should be somewhere they enjoy as long as they have choices.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I think you missed it. AU has a SCHOOL of arts and sciences, and a separate SCHOOL of international service. Yes there are distributional requirements at each. (though there doesn;t have to be - Brown, Smith, and Amherst have no distributional requirements.) But this is still a very different model than Tulane. (AU also has a SCHOOL of business, and a SCHOOL of public affairs - not just majors, but an entire “orientation” toward an undergraduate degree which is not liberal arts.) Tulane has (or had) a similar situation in its SCHOOL of engineering - while there were distributional requirements, it didn’t simply offer a major in engineering.)</p>
<p>No, you missed it. Look at the requirements for getting a BA in International Studies from American: [BA</a> in International Studies | American University](<a href=“http://www.american.edu/sis/degrees/BA-INST.cfm]BA”>Undergraduate | School of International Service | American University, Washington, DC)</p>
<p>So you need 120 hours (standard and just like Tulane) of which 10 courses have to be general Education courses, i.e. things like math and science that are outside the major. Then when you look at the foundation courses for the major, there are numerous history, philosophy, anthropology and religion courses, for example, not to mention a foreign language and culture requirement. That is, to me my friend, a liberal arts education as it is classically defined. The fact that they group these things into different SCHOOLS (since you insist on capitalizing) is not relevant to the argument I am making. And while Tulane does have a SCHOOL of Science and engineering, it is all grouped under Newcomb-Tulane College, which has requirements everyone must meet. But I specifically excluded Engineering and Architecture, because these are, in fact, more like “trade school” disciplines. Before anyone gets upset, I don’t mean that term in a demeaning or lesser way. Far from it. I just mean that those disciplines are so involved and require so much course work specific to them, there is not as much opportunity to take a broad range of courses in the tradition of the classic liberal arts education.</p>
<p>Brown, Amherst and Smith can do what they want to, of course. I didn’t say there were not other models. I am simply saying that the vast majority of US universities do not treat the general “tone” of a college education as being a “trade school” experience. Some people think they should, that the only purpose for going to college is to get a job. I happen to disagree, but that is a totally different discussion. As things stand today, most of the higher level universities still, to a greater or lesser degree at each I suppose, treat the purpose of a college education as the pursuit of a broad range of knowledge and to learn to think critically or to sharpen one’s critical thinking skills. I for one would hate to see that be lost.</p>
<p>Congratulations to your son on two great choices. If the cost is not an issue, he needs to do a side by side of the two schools to make that decision, unless he truly feels at home at one school and feels that’s the one. My son felt that way about a school after spending a day there, and he was determined to make that school work for him with whatever they had, he liked it so much.</p>
<p>“The fact that they group these things into different SCHOOLS (since you insist on capitalizing) is not relevant to the argument I am making.”</p>
<p>You’ve obviously never been there or seen it, so it is not surprising that you don’t know what you are talking about.</p>
<p>
LOL, OK. I have been there. I have seen it. You just don’t understand what I am saying in the least, and are responding to an argument I never made, I guess. I tried to explain it in excruciating detail, so you understand exactly the terminology the way I was using it and the way it is commonly used. But you seem to want to ignore this. No problem. What you said isn’t an argument of your side, it is just an ad hominem attack. How about some facts to refute my point?</p>
<p>If you want to say that AU’s SCHOOL of International Studies is a trade school, have it your way. If you want to say that people attending AU’s SCHOOL of International Studies are not getting a broad based, liberal arts education as it is generally defined today (having at least one course in most or all of math, science, western civ., non-western civ., history, philosophy, and literature), have it your way. Interestingly their own web site says differently (or are you saying the information on that link is incorrect?), and MOST high level schools say that students not getting degrees in highly specialized areas such as engineering and architecture do still have this mission. I have no idea what you were arguing about in the first place, actually. This is pretty unassailable. You can disagree if this should be the mission, but it is inarguable that most still purport this mission, and that it is reflected in their graduation requirements.</p>
<p>Adding on a bit: So back to the OP’s original question and the point I was trying to make, what if the OP’s son does, in fact, decide on a different major, or at the least decide that a career in this area isn’t as much fun as just being active in it as a “civilian”? It happens, a lot. It is not unreasonable to suggest one pick the school one thinks is best for a broader education and other fit factors. In England you go to school because you have had to pick your career from 8th grade on or whatever. We generally don’t do that here.</p>
<p>I did not mean to create any argument or put one school against the other both are fine institutions. I was just suprised how excited my son (and I) were about Tulane, when ever since he was a sophmore he always talked about school in DC. While I am almost 100% certain he will never switch to a career involving very intense mathematics or sciences…it is, as Fallen points out, not a great idea to pick a school based on ones intended major. I would however be shocked if he did not pursue a career in law, public policy, or politcal economics…that said my husband and my son wonder if getting an early start on understanding DC and making contacts would be a good idea. The semester in DC that Tulane offers could also provide that opportunity I suppose! Well, we are headed to AU to visit again in April, and hopefully he will cement his decision then. Thank you for all your input and feel free to add any additional thoughts if you like, it is greatly appreciated as this is my first time sending a child off to college.</p>
<p>Definitely not pitting one against the other, I tried to carefully avoid that. You are right, they are both really fine schools. I just don’t like having my words misconstrued or used in a way I didn’t intend. I am picky that way, LOL. Beyond that I was just pontificating on my take of what being an undergrad is all about. Just MHO.</p>
<p>I had a similar choice as your son – so this is what happened to me. </p>
<p>Got into American and a different, smaller school. Both had astounding political science programs, but I got the sense at my old school that you did at Tulane. The kids were SO excited to be there, the sense of community was something I felt I was lacking at my high school. Furthermore, the school looked like Hogwarts to me and was so beautiful while I visited AU on a cloudy day and insisted it was the ugliest school I’d ever seen. By the time financial aid decisions came out, my old school sold me by giving me more academic scholarships and grants. I shipped off in Fall 2007 for my college, and was relatively happy there.</p>
<p>UNTIL, Junior year rolled around – and I started thinking about post school plans. I started having a panic attack, that the only jobs I had held were academia: TA, Research Assistant, working a desk. I transferred to AU 2 years ago because I have yet to find an institution that prepares you more for finding a job – in DC or otherwise. They have one of the top ranked career centers, an extensive and helpful network of alumni in the city and around the country that the career center will connect you with, an exclusive database of internship and job opportunities, and many employers in the city who will only hire AU students because of the positive relationship they’ve had. As a senior set to graduate in 40-some days, I can’t tell you how invaluable this is – I sit looking at entry-level DC jobs that require 2-3 years of experience to even be considered. Bottom line: students from around the country, even if the interned in DC every single summer of their college career, cannot compete with the 6 internships I’ve had in the past two years alone. </p>
<p>The federal government, NGOs, and private companies all have a major bias of hiring within DC. Furthermore, I would have been stuck doing years of unpaid internship experiences or moving back to Michigan to deal with job hunting in 15% unemployment. Ultimately, AU gives you experiences you just can’t get anywhere else, I already have multiple interviews lined up despite being a Political Science major, I’ve seen Christ Matthews, Dan Rather, Eric Cantor, and numerous legislative staff speak just this year – with Colin Powell coming to visit in two weeks. I talk to my friends from my old school, and schools around the country who are unemployed, or doing internships despite previous work experience and graduating with honors. </p>
<p>It also seems silly – even if he did change his major – to assume that he would be outside of the Kogod, SIS or SPA schools which are all ranked and encompass a wide range of options. Has he looked into the CLEG major?</p>
<p>If you have any questions, quite literally about anything that you want to know, please feel free to message me.</p>
<p>EDIT: My old school offered the Washington Semester Program at American University like Tulane does. I attended it – and it is what caused me to transfer.</p>
<p>Wow, AUTransfer I would love to message you privately thanks. I am new to CC how do I do that?? If I can figure it out I will message you soon!</p>
<p>
Sigh. Again, I said nothing like that. The point was he really liked Tulane and New Orleans but was torn between that and going for the great poli sci program at AU, which you make a compelling case for btw. At least as far as wanting to be in federal politics. But since I am being misrepresented I guess I have to spell this out too.</p>
<p>Let’s say for the sake of making my point clear that he liked Tulane and New Orleans far more than AU and DC for everything except the poli sci aspects. Now let’s say that he picked AU over Tulane for only that reason. If in a year or two he decided that major wasn’t for him, then of course AU is likely to have other majors he would like, but he would have given up being at a school he liked better in a city he liked better. If one agrees with my tenet that one should pick a school based on overall fit rather than a particular major, what I said makes perfect sense. If you don’t, then it doesn’t follow.</p>
<p>I wish people would read more carefully. Anyway, he will probably like AU just fine when he goes back to visit and find the poli sci atmosphere quite compelling. It will be interesting to see.</p>
<p>@ecgaltodfw:
- To send a private message click on the blue ‘AUTransfer’ next to my name. This will take you to my home page.
- At the top it will say ‘AUTransfer’, Junior Member and then ‘Send Message’ – which you should click on and select ‘send a private message’. </p>
<p>I’ll get an email as soon as you send it. Hope to hear from you soon. </p>
<p>@Fallenchemist: I wasn’t addressing any points you made, which is why I may appear to be misrepresenting something you said. If I did – it was coincidental.</p>
<p>AUTransfer, that’s odd since I was the one that originally brought up the point about most students changing majors during their undergraduate career. But OK, that’s fine. The point still stands, even if you were replying to what ecgaltodfw said, who was repeating what I said to make her point.</p>
<p>AUTransfer - I tried to message you privately did you receive it?</p>
<p>interestingly enough, when i was at tulane al gore, colin powell, and obama, all spoke on campus…</p>
<p>but, my friends wanting to get into politics did find it necessary to move to dc after graduating, and so far have had varying levels of success. although i will say my most successful friend attended indiana and only did one summer internship in washington before being offered a full-time position upon graduation. did he have all the networking and connections from going to school in dc? no. i think what it came down to was who he is as a person.</p>
<p>obviously american would offer more of these opportunities and networking than tulane. the question is, is that important enough to him? it will be interesting to see what he decides after visiting american again!</p>