<p>Ghostt first of all this isn’t really an argument and what I stated certainly wasn’t a rant. I completely agree with you that I find the typical arguments about why the 7th ranked school is vastly superior to the 10th ranked school to be pure nonsense. But that doesn’t mean that some schools aren’t universally accepted to be better than others. I have seen plenty of people on CC argue that going to a local state school is just as good as Harvard. And for some students that might be true. However it is foolish to proclaim that all schools are equal. I apologize for my choice of words about PhD’s which could have been better. My point was that the job prospects for any humanities PhD is extremely limited. I live in a neighborhood filled with University PhD’s from a top school and all of them universally advise their children to find a different line of work. The cut’s in funding and the issue of tenure make getting a tenure job next to impossible unless your are URM or truly brilliant. The other thing I would point out is the PhD is about to become greatly diluted as a flood of nursing programs are promoting nursing PhD’s as a way to replace primary care doctors with nurse doctors and now all physical therapist are required to obtain a PhD. But at least these newly minted PhD’s will have jobs. At any rate the fact that Reed produces so many PhD candidates is interesting and does attest to the fact that Reed is a good school but it is not really very relevant to the OP’s original question since this probably more accurately reflects the types of students who choose various schools. After all one could just as easily list acceptance rates to the much more competitive disciplines of medical school, top business schools, or top law schools. </p>
<p>You basically rehashed the same misinformed argument (acceptance rate determines how ‘good’ a school is – why don’t we all line up to go to the College of the Ozarks??) and started ranting about how the uselessness of humanities PhDs. I am literally laughing. And I am done. Oh boy, I must say, College Confidential has some really interesting folk.</p>
<p>Int 95 you might do better if you wait until you have a bit more real life experience before making so many comments. You seem totally unaware of the very real crisis in the humanities. Stating a well known fact by the way is not a rant. </p>
<p><a href=“Letters About “Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don’t Go””>http://chronicle.com/article/Letters-About-Graduate-School/63938/</a></p>
<p><a href=“Adjunct. The Modern Indentured Servant. | modern disappointment.”>http://moderndisappointment.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/11/10/adjunct-the-modern-indentured-servant/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.alternet.org/education/academias-indentured-servants”>http://www.alternet.org/education/academias-indentured-servants</a></p>
<p>I am well aware of the lack of academic jobs in the humanities (though getting a job outside of academia isn’t documented enough so the “crisis” may not be that catastrophic). In any case, that is completely irrelevant to the argument and very self-serving to your own misleading claims. Honestly, you sound more like a 10th grader than someone with any kind of “real life experience”.</p>
<p>The crisis is quite real and getting a PhD in most fields of humanity is likely to be a poor career choice. Everything I have stated is factual and easily verified. I apologize if I sounded too harsh but the truth isn’t always pleasant. I had four children attend top colleges and the harshest lesson they all learned is that college is easy and that life afterwards only gets much harder. The country is filled with college graduates working in jobs that require no college degree and still living at home. In truth the average fireman in San Diego will out earn the average college graduate and the average attorneys and retire at 50. </p>
<p>Yes, but people still line up to get a PhD in the humanities. They do this not because of the superior job prospects, but out of a desire to live a “life of the mind”. Anyone who wants to do this should go to Harvard, Yale or Princeton so that even if they end up without a tenure-track job, they can get jobs in finance/business simply because of the HYP pull.</p>
<p>In any case, from my point of view, the problem with humanities PhDs is less about the lack of academic jobs and more about the departments’ lack of willingness to help their students get jobs outside of academia (<a href=“What Doors Does a Ph.D. in History Open?”>http://chronicle.com/article/What-Doors-Does-a-PhD-in/135448/</a>). This is true for all PhD programs, though.</p>
<p>Here I think we agree though this post seems inconsistent with your previous statements. Yes HPY do have slightly more pull which is exactly why many of us advised the OP to choose Amherst over Reed for exactly the same reasons. As for students lining up for humanities PhD’s the problem here is that in many cases the schools/advisors have not been completely honest about the dismal job prospects. This exact scenario is currently unfolding in the field of law where 50% of the graduates are unable to get real jobs and the starting salary is under 50k. We now have a world where the average city cop or fireman makes the total equivalent of 180k/year(including future retirement benefits) and retires at 50 which is a far better than most college grads will ever get. </p>
<p>“Assuming a student/familiy is paying going to a private college costs over 250k. So the vast majority of families want to get the best return on that huge cost.”</p>
<p>This is NOT a good assumption. It’s the net cost that matters. From CDS’s 57% of Amherst students and 47% of Reed students received financial aid last year. More often than not Amherst is chosen over Reed for reasons of difference in FA awards. Few institutions are as well endowed by size as Amherst.</p>
<p><a href=“College Endowments”>http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html</a></p>
<p>Further, families that do have $250K to spend on college tend to measure their return on investment by happiness and personal successes of their student and NOT by pay scales. Most people view Reed as riskier than Amherst in terms of personal fit.</p>
<p>@SAY Police officers are college grads these days. They often have majored not in humanities but rather criminology. Typically they are not grads of LAC’s like Amherst or Reed.</p>
<p>924 are you another HS student? Yes about 50% of the families in top schools are paying full tuition so this is a very accurate well documented statement. Amherst is usually chosen over Reed because it’s one of the two best LAC’s and very few students get to make that choice anyway. You are delusional to believe that familes that spend 250k on college do this as an investment in "happiness " of their child rather than the best opportunity though all parents want their children to be happy. And no most police officers do not have college degrees. Please don’t post before you check your facts. A college degree is not required in 98% of all police departments. </p>
<p>According to a recent study, 22.6 percent of police officers in the United States have a four-year degree from an accredited college or university, and the number of officers with college degrees has been growing by 2 percent annually.
Source:
Police Association for College Education: Information Paper</p>
<p>“The Police Chief” magazine; College Education and Policing; Louis Mayo; August 2006</p>
<p>More I</p>
<p>Read more: What percentage of police officers have college degrees? | Answerbag <a href=“Answerbag Resource Busy -- Start a conversation. Have some fun.”>Answerbag Resource Busy -- Start a conversation. Have some fun.;
<p>NO school in the US (barring MIT and Stanford) has the kind of pull that HYP have–internationally as well as nationally (terrible way to twist my claim). Choosing Amherst over Reed, unless you want to go to Wall Street, because you think it is as prestigious as HYP is simply ridiculous and out of the misinformed claims you are spreading. This is the problem with pitting one good LAC against another: no one ever wins because neither school is HYP and can never be. </p>
<p>rhg3rd has a PhD. You, on the other hand, still sound like a high schooler, given your endless intransigent rambling.</p>
<p>Where did I ever say Amherst= HPYS that is no more true that saying Reed =Amherst. The fact that rhg3 has a PhD doesn’t change the fact that he is completely wrong about police officers and college degrees. Correcting misstatements is not rambling. It makes more sense to spend a few minutes researching a subject if one isn’t
sure rather than just posting erroneous statements off the cuff. </p>
<p>^You are citing an 8 year-old source. So it’s now up to 38%. New police hires often are college grads that’s why there is a significant growth rate. Having only a HS diploma, doesn’t cut it anymore even for being a cop. </p>
<p>NO LAC makes sense for someone obsessed with ROI.</p>
<p>There is no need for me to defend Amherst. As a highly ranked LAC, Amherst does not need any defense. Reed is a wonderful school but it knew the consequences of defying college rankings and still did it anyway. I’m positive that many commenters here would be singing a different tune if US News ranked Reed fairly. I imagine it would be ranked somewhere around with Wesleyan and Bates, both of which trail Amherst. It is of interest, however, that Reed had (or has) such a high peer rating and attracts very qualified students in spite of all of its objective flaws. Despite everything, however, its reputation as a top LAC is well ingrained in academia. I have high respect for this school, but yes, students do typically choose Amherst over Reed. I did too, but that was mainly because of financial aid, and many students here who chose Amherst over other LACs did so because of the same reason. I do agree that a lot of students here, especially the wealthy ones, need to feel validated by Amherst’s rank and “prestige”. This attitude is less prevalent amongst those on financial aid, and this is the group I hang out with more often, so for me, it’s ok. Perhaps for the wealthier students, it’s to feel justified in paying all that money? As to the matter of HYPSM vs top LACs, one of my friends did say no to Chicago, Brown and Dartmouth. There are a few (3-5) who said no to HYPM, but till now, I haven’t met anyone who said no to Stanford to come here.</p>
<p>Amherst caters to all types of students: we have “life of the mind” nerds and jocks (who seem to be everywhere, but maybe that’s because you seem them outside more often than those who spend time in the library) and artists (although not at the extent I saw at Vassar and Bard while touring colleges two years ago). I’ve had my share of bad time at Amherst (I can never forget that jock at a party who told me I looked like a nun for not taking off my shirt. I haven’t been to another party since), but the academics are superb and learning from my professors reminds me why I love this school. Socially, I do think that I would have been better off at schools like Wesleyan and Bates and Vassar, but sometimes we need to make compromises. All in all, I love Amherst not for its supposed prestige, not for its rank, not for its social life, but for its academics. In terms of jobs, as the sister of a guy who was unemployed after graduating from Williams '11, I must say that top LACs cannot really help you unless you actively seek out those jobs (he’s in grad school now). Many students (white males, especially) here hope to work in banking and consulting, and they do get those jobs. Outside those fields, I very much doubt that Amherst could help you more than Reed. In non-profits and the publishing industry, schools like Vassar and Sarah Lawrence have a much more established name.</p>
<p>“NO LAC makes sense for someone obsessed with ROI.” I agree with this. If you spend $250k to come to Amherst in the hopes of getting a job w/ huge pay upon graduation, you will most probably be disappointed unless you go into banking and finance. In terms of intellectual fulfillment and grad school options, both Reed and Amherst can do an amazing job, and neither is the ‘better’ choice. I suspect your chances of getting into med school are better through Amherst (the lack of grade inflation at Reed doesn’t help), and in terms of PhDs, it’s a wash. MBAs seem to be losing their relevance these days, and law school is besides the point.</p>
<p>Anyway, anyone who is making this decision should focus firstly on finances and then on fit. Some students here are MISERABLE because of the social life; others, on the other hand, love it and could not imagine any place better. Go to the place that makes more sense. I regret it a little that I said no to Vassar, but the few thousand dollar difference in my financial aid packages seemed compelling enough at the time. Now, less so, but I am fine with Amherst and super satisfied with the academics. After all, you are going to college to study. :)</p>
<p>I strongly agree with Athena’s view. She has much insight into her educational experience as a student. I also support Int95’s view on Reed, and his/her decision to chose Reed over Amherst. I think the final decision should be based upon where a student get the best education among the colleges that he/she was admitted assuming that cost is not a mitigating factor. It may sound naive but ultimately it is each student’s education and their future, and they will need to make their own personal decision Unfortunately, the issue of return of investment for college education seems to creep up more and more nowadays, particularly given the high cost of private education in the U.S. and the uncertain job market. </p>
<p>I believe Reed or Amherst offer high quality educations, on par, or even superior to those offered by top ivies. I made such a choice many years ago. On the other hand, the student has to value the quality and/or fit of the educational experience over “prestige.” Amherst has more prestige than Reed, but is it the best college for a particular student? HYP may have more prestige than Amherst or Reed but it is the best college for another student? For some students, a LAC education is their preferred choice and may offer them more than what they would obtain at a top ivy. The educational value of a college education should not be measured by the income or wealth of alumni but perhaps by their overall satisfaction with that education. I don’t know whether this is necessarily the best indicator of such satisfaction but percentage alumni giving may provide a hint about the real value graduates placed on their education. Afterall, they are putting their money behind their words. It is interesting that 9/10 top schools for percentage alumni giving were LACs, with Princeton the only university. <a href=“https://www.alumnifactor.com/node/5854”>https://www.alumnifactor.com/node/5854</a>
Princeton was first with 60% participation and Amherst close behind with 55%. Interestingly, Harvard came in at 19% (not sure whether this undergraduates or all graduates).</p>
<p>I will requote what I wrote in #16 of this thread and also refer readers to my comments on the issues of prestige/fit in the Harvard vs. Amherst thread.</p>
<p>“As an Amherst grad, I have learned that many people have not heard about my college internationally; however, that did not make any difference professionally in the long run. What was most important was the quality of education that I obtained, and it enabled me to feel that I could compete at every stage of my career with graduates from any other university or college. I also believe that my education provided me with the intellectual background and critical thinking to find enjoyment and purpose professionally and personally.”</p>
<p>I’m sure the same comment would be made by many Reed grads, for sure. As well as HYP grads.</p>
<p>I would agree entirely with Athena99 and pmyen. However after a career of dealing with very detailed data it’s hard for me to ignore blatantly false information on a college blog. rhg3 you are getting closer to the truth but your original statement about the police force having college degrees was completely false and you should just admit you were wrong. The fact remains that having a college degree is not a prerequisite for being a cop though more cops are now getting degrees at some point in their careers but it’s light years away from Amherst and Reed. As I have said in previous posts the current obsession with college prestige and selectivity is absurd because where one goes to college rarely is the determining event in one’s life but the OP who started this thread was asking for an honest information about the differences between Amherst and Reed. The schools have many similarities both for all the reasons previously discussed, in the current crazy obsessed world of college admissions they are not close peers. This is not an opinion and every paid college advisor knows full well the vast difference in difficulty of gaining admission to Amherst. </p>
<p>@SAY
Why would an Amherst grad deign to head another liberal arts college (for ten years) if he didn’t feel it measured up to his own alma mater?<a href=“Colin S. Diver - President's Office - Reed College”>http://www.reed.edu/president/reed_presidents/diver.html</a></p>
<p>circuitrider are you suggesting that top executives of large companies like GE don’t leave to become CEO’s of smaller companies all the time. It’s called advancing your career and increasing your salary. You need to realize that some things are opinions and some things are factual. Admission to Amherst being far more more difficult falls into the fact column. I think we are just beating a dead horse at this point. Reed is a very good school with very qualified students but very easy to gain admission for good students. Amherst is a very good school with very qualified students that is very hard to gain admission even for the very best students which also happens to be in a far more desirable location and has a far more distinguished history. The quality of educations received are comparable and there is probably little to no long term advantage to going there over Reed. Enough said. </p>
<p>@SAY,
</p>
<p>Portland Oregon puts rural Massachusetts to shame. Honestly, I think you’re the one beating the dead horse.</p>
<p>I think the horse is now not only dead but in smithereens.</p>
<p>“Portland Oregon puts rural Massachusetts to shame”</p>
<p>That’s just another personal opinion 
</p>