Penn’s campus is not run-down or in any way lacking vis-a-vis its peers. The school continues–even in this economic downturn–to spend literally billions (with a “b”) of dollars on its physical plant and surrounding neighborhood, and the vast majority of people are quite impressed with the campus. I suspect that pliverpool was reacting more to the age of the building he/she happened to enter, as opposed to its physical condition. Actually, I’m not quite sure to which building he/she was referring, since there is no zoololgy building at Penn (he/she may have been referring to the Leidy Labs, which is one of the older buildings on campus).</p>
<p>And I wouldn’t worry too much about Penn’s financial resources. Its endowment is still valued at $5 billion even AFTER its losses in this downturn, it’s one of the top 5 schools in the country in terms of total contributions it received last year (and is perenially in the top 10), and it receives more research money than all but 2 or 3 other schools. Furthermore, Penn historically relies on endowment income to fund a much smaller percentage of its operating budget than do several of its peers, so its endowment size is much less of a factor in what it is able to spend on, e.g., physical plant and maintenance.</p>
<p>I went to Penn and have kids at Amherst and Dartmouth. They are all amazing places. Penn is not run down!</p>
<p>Of the three, knowing what I know today, I would personally choose Dartmouth. It’s hard to find a kid there who is not madly in love with the place and that says it all for me. The focus on undergrad teaching and the close community are hard to beat. Though if you truly hate Greek life, even where all the parties are open, and you object to heavy partying, Dartmouth may not be for you. Same with Penn on that front.</p>
<p>Amherst’s open curriculum is something many treasure. I would have loved that. Yet Amherst’s small size makes some bored after a short time. The consortium does help on that front. Great male:female ratio if you’re male! Big negative for girls.</p>
<p>Penn offer you a city and close proximity to an even better one, NYC. I don’t think undergrad classes are as good as Dartmouth’s and Amherst’s though.</p>
<p>And I’ve always loved Gtown. Location with internship and job opportunities is fantastic.</p>
<p>I’d advocate for Cornell, but it doesn’t sound like its the right the atmosphere for you. If this true I’d eliminate UPenn and Georgetown too. In that case I’d say any one of the liberal arts colleges or Dartmouth which is in most ways, like an LAC</p>
<p>im female. i guess im not that much into old architecture. you know, i think i was resting my whole “penn is rundown” on the surroundings before i reached upenn. we were driving around foreverrrrrr. and i did not go past the undergraduate office, towards the college green. i only went towards the quad. i didn’t see much of the campus because we went late and i couldn’t go on a tour. you know that big red statue thing on campus? if you walk down that walkway towards 38th st., the zoology building will be on your left. it’s close to 38th st. </p>
<p>yeah, i really like midd of all the LAC’s. i love the fact they have their own skiway. i really want to go there. it was like one of the few colleges i liked since my sophomore year. only prob. is i have to take out a loan, and i my mom is forcing me to go to one of the ivy leagues. i wouldn’t mind going to dartmouth, i just hope it will be a good environment for me. i always loved dartmouth until someone forced these ideas in my head about how i’ll be lonely there and everything. after the meeting with the dartmouth students, my mom kind of is letting me consider to go there. and im visitng cornell this weekend (i should really get off the computer since i have to get ready to leave tmrw) so i will see how that goes. </p>
<p>all my life i went to schools i didn’t like. i’m just trying to pick the perfect choice so i will have no regrets.</p>
<p>wait, i didn’t mean to say that because im female, im not into old architecture. i meant that im not into old architecture which is why upenn does not have a great appearance in my eyes. and also meant to say that im female. but those 2 things weren’t supposed to be connected.</p>
<p>Amherst: good writing program, good campus, no greek life, what else could i ask for? i need to visit. </p>
<p>Cornell: need to visit</p>
<p>Dartmouth: I met some great people at the Dartmouth accepted students party, and yeah, they were very open. Plus, I love the idea of DArtmouth having their own skiway. I don’t know if I want to be that much rural though. But being rural brings everyone closer. True, parties at Dartmouth are open to everyone. </p>
<p>Middlebury: I think I like Midd. more than all the schools on here. </p>
<p>UPenn: I really liked the people I visited when I went to UPenn. I didn’t get to see much of it though. I wish it would not overlap with other colleges and maintain its own identity. </p>
<p>If you like Midd more than all of the schools on here, then come! i’m a Midd student right now and I am having the time of my life. I cannot say enough about the quality of the student body, but the thing I love most is just how friendly everyone is. There is absolutely no trace of the pretentious atmosphere that many schools have (and that many people think Midd has). All of the professors are excellent (that I’ve had, at least), and very approachable (which is key, IMO). If you have any questions just ask.</p>
I’ve spent quite a bit of time on the Penn campus over the years, and I have no idea which building you mean! :)</p>
<p>Oh well, it sounds like you really didn’t get to see much of the Penn campus. Most of the really nice parts of campus are closed off from the surrounding streets and vehicular traffic, and you have to walk around a lot to appreciate how very lovely it actually is (especially for a campus in the middle of a major city).</p>
<p>Also, since you’re interested in creative writing, it’s too bad you didn’t get a chance to check out the Kelly Writers House. It’s an actual house on campus that contains all sorts of programs devoted to creative writing. ilovebagels posted a recent New York Times article about it in his post #8, above. Here’s the Kelly Writers House web site, which is definitely worth exploring:</p>
<p>It’s truly a unique asset, and is a terrific adjunct to Penn’s top-10 English department.</p>
<p>Since you’re fairly close, maybe you should consider another visit to Penn so that you can really check out the campus, Kelly Writers House, English Department, etc.</p>
<p>pliver, It seems you’re leaning toward the small LAC environment, but you’re not ready to let the ivy league brandname go. That’s a decision that only you can make. Maybe after your visit to Cornell things will be clearer. My son is a graduate of Williams and he’s headed to Cornell for graduate school. Many of his classmates – and friends who attended other LACs – have followed the same path: small for undergrad, big for graduate.</p>
<p>The second decision is physical environment. My son loved Williams, Williamstown, the Berkshires and the natural beauty of Cornell is also a big draw for him. This is a personal, subjective decision, but it’s hard to fathom how anyone could consider both Penn and Williams just from the point of view ambience. They are so very, very different.</p>
<p>Williams has a wonderful English department with several successful writers as permanent faculty and visiting professors, e.g., Jim Shepard, Andrea Barrett. In my opinion, Williams offers more in the arts in general – creative writing, music, art, museums, theater – than the other LACs that you are considering.</p>
<p>There is also no shortage of opportunities to ski. That’s what winter study (January term) is all about. </p>
<p>I’m not clear from your posting which of the LACs you have actually visited. Amherst, Middlebury and Williams have a lot of similarities, but the differences become evident once you’re on campus. If you are seriously considering any of them, you must visit first.</p>
<p>All great schools-but I vote for Dartmouth/big enough, but a liberal arts character; great well maintained facilities; skiing; nice, happy people. A nice town-no less rural than Middlebury.</p>
<p>“Many of his classmates – and friends who attended other LACs – have followed the same path: small for undergrad, big for graduate.”</p>
<p>By definition, LACs basically don’t have grad programs. So attending them for grad school is not an option. </p>
<p>So everyone basically goes “big” for grad, wherever they went for undergrad, big or small.</p>
<p>So what you’re left with, basically, is that your son & friends attended an LAC.
That’s not some pattern, it’s just where they chose to do undergrad.People variously choose large or small school, based on personal preference, to do undergrad. Whichever they choose there, then to do grad school they all wind up at big school regardless. Because that’s where grad is done.</p>
<p>monydad, And your point is what, exactly? I think what the OP and her parents need to realize is that you can have it both ways – an LAC for undergrad and an Ivy league (or whatever floats your boat) for graduate.</p>
you know that big red statue thing on campus? if you walk down that walkway towards 38th st., the zoology building will be on your left. it’s close to 38th st. </p>