Amherst vs Duke

I am an international student blessed to have been admitted to Amherst and Duke. Now, the difficult thing is choosing between the two.
Cost doesn’t matter since I have been given an almost identical financial aid package at both of them.
I want to pursue a double major in economics and mathematics and work at wall street. I am not sure yet, but might go on pursuing a masters degree. Which university is the best choice? Where do companies recruit the most? Job prospects at each uni? Academic environment?

Thank you!

Double majoring is easy at Amherst given the open curriculum. I am not familiar with Duke’s gen-ed requirements.

A few things to look at/consider.

Finance people can major in anything but they often choose Econ, to a lesser degree Stats, math and the like. Amherst has a LOT of econ majors.

Amherst has a partnership with Harvard’s business school: http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2015/05/06/amherst-partners-harvard-business-school-program

The Amherst career web site: https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/amherst-careers-in/business-finance-entrepreneurship - I don’t think as a non-student you have access to the calendar of companies coming to campus over the past year or so but if you are an admitted student you might ask.

Some finance immersion programs: https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/amherst-careers-in/business-finance-entrepreneurship/get-involved

Finally, I’d check linkedin’s list of colleges that feed finance firms: https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-finance

http://admissions.duke.edu/education/majors

^ 83% of Duke students go beyond a single major.

The program you’re describing is an online program that includes several LACs (but no elite research universities). It’s not unique to Amherst. I know that you didn’t claim that it was. I’m just pointing that out for the OP’s benefit. An online program is not quite the same as a “partnership”. The program doesn’t guarantee admission to HBS. It may not even boost your odds of being accepted.

http://hbx.hbs.edu/hbx-core/collaborating-colleges-universities

Duke is the 8th biggest feeder to HBS. Amherst doesn’t feature in the top 20 (even though Dartmouth which is similarly sized does very well)

http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/15/top-feeder-colleges-to-harvard-business-school/2/

Duke ranks higher on Linkedin’s list (7th vs 15th).
It also ranks 4th on the Investment Banking list. Amherst is 12th.

https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-investment-banking?trk=edu-rankings-flt-ctg-dd

Both schools keep the Wall Street tool shed well stocked, so you needn’t worry on that count. Totally different out-of-class experience at the two schools though, at least based on my weekend visits with friends at Amherst and Duke. If you want SCHOOL SPIRIT on sprawling grounds and in Lego-Yale buildings, go to Duke. If you want the quintessential New England LAC experience, sometimes stifling and insular but more often cozy, Amherst is sort of the apotheosis.

@NerdyChica – The OP posted this on the Duke thread also, and you responded there. I’m not sure why you felt the need to come over to the Amherst board and post the same stuff. We get it. You’re armed with all sorts of ‘objective’ evidence of how Duke is ranked higher than Amherst in some stats related to the question.

@kalango – When a high school senior comes on these threads and says that they want to go into finance or work on Wall Street I think – Hmmm . . Do they really know what they’d be doing day to day working in finance? And what does working on Wall Street mean? – it’s so broad and encompasses all sorts of different jobs – it makes it clear that it’s not the nature of the work that’s attractive.
To me it means that you want to go to college and then go out and make a lot of money. I don’t say that pejoratively. I actually think that it’s a more laudable goal than some others that kids have. But I’d urge you to view college as more than trade school. You could go to Duke or Amherst, and if you work hard and make your own breaks you’ll be able to go work on Wall Street whichever school you choose. The statistical distinctions above between the two schools are meaningless from a practical standpoint. If you ‘have it’, either school will be a great launch pad.

But the two schools are very different from each other in many respects that are more personal choice/preference. And especially as an international student you might want to think strongly as to where you’d be happier, because if you’re unhappy not only will you be, well, unhappy – but you might also not perform as well. Do you think you’d be better off at a bigger school (more stuff going on) or a smaller school (more personal attention/interaction with professors and other students)? In North Carolina or western MA? With a gen ed requirement or a totally open curriculum? Check out the course catalogs (available on the schools’ websites) – where do the courses look more interesting to you? What are the students like at these two schools (check out Unigo for that)? Finally, do you get any sense if either school provides a better/easier environment for international students?
That’s where I’d focus your homework, as opposed to looking at outcome statistics vis-a-vis getting a high-paying job on Wall Street (or in Charlotte or Boston, where there are also have plenty of high-paying finance jobs).

Hey, that’s cool! I found out from @NerdyChica that Amherst’s ~1800 students is similarly sized to Dartmouth’s ~4300 undergrads.

@AsleepAtTheWheel Thank you! I don’t know if I should say this but I really want to make the right choice. Nerdychica wrote me a PM saying that LAC are becoming obsolete and many can’t find jobs in the market. Is that true?

@NerdyChica obviously has some sort of agenda to steer you towards Duke.

Regarding LAC’s:

My sister teaches at a USNWR top 25 university. She’s chaired two departments during her time there. She loves her school, but she’d readily tell you that a major part of the school’s mission of elite universities is to do research and publish new information. Therefore faculty are recruited on that basis, and not at all on their ability to teach. There are many wonderful teachers at these schools, but there are also a significant number of faculty who view teaching simply as something that gets in the way of their research.

My sister, who is familiar with Amherst, would back up Amherst’s claim that their mission, first and foremost, is to educate their students. Not denigrating Duke, but I am confident that at Amherst your professors will take a much greater personal interest in you and will do more to see that you succeed. Similarly, I think that if you have a problem, e.g., a personal crisis or extenuating circumstances of any sort, you’ll get more help at Amherst, both from the faculty and/or the admisinistration. This is in my mind the biggest difference you’ll find between LAC’s and major universities.

Regarding finding jobs in the market? I think that if you do an apples to apples comparison, the schools come out pretty even. There may (or may not) be more philosophy majors proportionally at small LAC’s than at Duke, so maybe more LAC kids don’t have a readily marketable skill when they graduate. I don’t really know. I guess the main point is that if you don’t have marketable knowledge or skill and/or haven’t demonstrated in college that you’re able to succeed in a rigorous course of study that it doesn’t matter if you graduated from Amherst or from Duke. My guess is that @NerdyChica has little direct knowledge about Amherst or about the job prospects for math/econ majors who graduate schools like Amherst, Williams, Pomona, etc.

I posted this link in another thread, but I think that it’s helpful:
https://www.amherst.edu/system/files/media/69th%2520SSR%2520in%25202015%2520%2528Class%2520of%25202019%2529.pdf
Scroll down to the next to last page that shows all of the majors of last year’s graduating class. I think that it’s instructive. Note how many Economics and something else double majors are there. And note that there are 12 Econ/Math double majors (of 450ish graduates). I can almost guarantee you that any of these kids, if they graduated with good academic records, who wanted a job in finance found a job in finance. You are in a much more select group graduating with this degree from Amherst than you’d be at Duke.
Also, without question Amherst is held in very high esteem by folks who do admissions at graduate schools.

But honestly, I have no dog in this hunt. You should go to the school that’s the best ‘fit’ for you. As I wrote in the prior note if I were you I’d look at factors other than post-graduate job opportunities. Most importantly I’d look for where you think you’d connect best with the other students and where you’d most feel at home. But if you’re a good student who won’t get lost in distractions when you’re in college I don’t think you need to base your decision on which school will give you a leg up on a job or graduate school. You’ll not be limited in those opportunities if you choose Amherst.

Finding a job after school - LAC or U - is really about what you study, what you do on campus, the internships you get in summers, the skills you acquire. Some kids party through and do OK grade-wise and then without significant family connections, struggle. Some take advantage of all that comes their way, build a resume by working, volunteering, doing paid and unpaid internships, make sure they have some marketable skills that will help with that first job, and succeed.

It’s more about you and what you do than it is whether you go to Duke or Amherst. We’re talking about schools that are both highly respected, though one may be more than the other regionally.

I would make this choice on other criteria than “can I work in finance”.

@NerdyChica

" Amherst doesn’t feature in the top 20 (even though Dartmouth which is similarly sized does very well)"

In what world is a school with 1850 undergrads “similar sized” to a school with 4300+ undergrads??

@8bagels – I guess that @NerdyChica didn’t take math at Duke.

For the serious study of economics, these analyses, based on faculty publishing, could be useful: “Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges,” “US Economics Departments,” IDEAS (online).