<p>My D is admitted in both. Her heart goes to biology and premed. In your opinion, which one would be the best choice and why. Many thanks for response.</p>
<p>I don't think you can wrong. But I like the LAC environment at Amherst better. It's not an opinion I'd defend to the last trench, though.</p>
<p>I went to Amherst for undergrad and attended Johns Hopkins for medical school, and thus had a number of Hopkins grads as classmates. My impression is that Amherst offered a more well-rounded liberal arts education whereas Hopkins offered a more focused professionally-oriented undergrad experience. Hopkins prides itself on research, and thus puts greater emphasis in graduate training. I strongly believe that college provides an unique opportunity to explore many other disciplines, and also to develop socially and intellectually apart from class work. It will be hard to ever find four years to fully devote to learning in the full sense of the word. I spent some time on the Homewood campus as I lived near there when I was a med student. My impression is that the general atmosphere was more relaxed at Amherst-students seemed to be having more fun.
Amherst has a high medical school placement rate (95+%). I have served on the medical school admissions committee of one of the top med schools. Hopkins grads tend to do a lot of research at the medical school which certainly can be a plus if their interest is in that direction. On the other hand, Amherst students can work with profs without competing with grad students or post-docs. Amherst students also can work at a major medical center during the summer. I have had some work in my lab in the past. From a medical admissions committee standpoint, a degree from either Amherst or Hopkins will be regarded similar to those from an Ivy League school. Doing well in either place should enable you to apply to any medical school.</p>
<p>Thank you for both responses.
Pmyen: How many students in Amherst each year apply to med school and where do most of these students end up? What is the average MCAT score there? Is the biology department there strong?</p>
<p>95% placement? That is absolutely amazing! How does the school get a number like that? That makes me really interested in attending. What is it that makes Amherst so good?</p>
<p>A large part of that number is that Amherst pre-selects for very good students anyway. Add to that that it's a top school and...voila!</p>
<p>What do you mean by "pre-selects?" It only recommends the best?</p>
<p>No...the other way around. For the most part, only very very good students get into Amherst in the first place. It save the professional and grad schools trouble for doing an in-depth analysis: "3.6 at Amherst...NEXT!"</p>
<p>That sounds awesome! I will definitely have to look into this school....</p>
<p>Lewey,
I don't know the most recent statistics but traditionally about 15% of the graduating class is premed. You may want to check with Prof. George of the Neuroscience/Biology Dept. as he has been the premed advisor for many years. At Hopkins, I would guess the number may be double that amount. Hopkins also has a large number of engineering, pre-law, and international studies students (due to its renowned School of International Studies in D.C.); hence the pre-professional flavor of the undergraduate student body. Even though Amherst is smaller, I would say there is more breadth in the types of students and their intellectual interests. Although Hopkins is very strong in the humanities, it generally has trouble attracting a large number of very top students interested primarily in the humanities (despite its strong graduate programs in these areas), which definitely would not be the case at Amherst. I also would say there may be more intellectual explorers at Amherst, i.e., students who are bright and curious but not as career-oriented and perhaps are more uncoventional learners. Those type of students probably would not fit in at Hopkins. On the other hand, if someone knows what they want to do for their career and is eager to get a head start, the research opportunities and grad level courses available at Hopkins are almost unparalleled. I say this because many of the grad programs are top notch-from bioengineering to Creative writing to astronomy/physics- and they are small. An ambitious, focused student could start taking advantage of such programs earlier in their undergraduate career. On the other hand, at Amherst you will find a physics major who studies Japanese literature and goes into business, a classics (Greek and Latin) major who is musician and goes into film-directing, and a physics major (who is passionate about math, physics, and holograms) and later becomes a Prof. at Princeton and UVa. These were my third year suitemates, and I learned a lot from them. I personally believe there is a season for gaining a broad liberal education, and another one for developing one's vocation.</p>
<p>I don't know about Amherst in particular, but I do know that the selection process for "who gets recommended to the medical programs" is brutal. Before your advisor writes you the required rec. letter, he will study your "chances", and could very well refuse to recommend you. How else can a school have a 95% acceptance rate into med. school?</p>
<p>I first heard of this on these boards, and then talked with a nephew who is now a resident at JHU hospital. And he told me that many of his classmates were "eliminated" in the early rounds, steered in other directions, and basically told "No". So do take all of these med./law acceptances rates in the right context. 95% acceptance means, we did a pretty darn good job selecting who could apply.</p>
<p>Lewey,
In response to your question about MCAT scores. For students coming out of top universities and colleges, or honors programs of top state-universities, they are almost superfluous unless they are anomalously high or low. If you do well in such programs, it is a given that you will do well in med school. Other factors, particularly transcript and outside activities (as they relate to medicine) become more important. In this connection, we admitted someone who graduated from an elite university who had very low MCAT scores who was captain of his football team, president of his class, had an A average in his science courses, and was an All American Scholar Athlete. I didn't have to look at his MCAT score to know that I would do everything I could to push his candidiacy. He was an overachiever who had remarkable self-discipline, leadership, and interpersonal skills that enabled him to be a star in his college environment regardless of his standardized test taking skills (or lack thereof). I have no doubt he will achieve his professional goals in the same manner. You will find that later in life, test scores will mean absolutely nothing. It is what you do with the opportunities given to you in school and work.</p>
<p>MCAT scores are useful when someone is applying from a large state university and there are a lot of pre-meds with similar academic records applying to the same medical school. MCATs help distinguish the applicant pool from that university. Additionally, if a top student comes from a school that is not known for its academic rigor or lacks a very strong academically oriented student body, it would be important for us to know where that student stood relative to the national applicant pool. How does being the valedictorian of such a school compare with top students at schools that offer a more academically challenging environment?</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the rational and thoughtful input. I can see the benefit and potential in either school. She is visiting and stays overnight in both schools to experience the feelings and to sense where she would take as a home. By researching and talking to friends so far, it is really hard to weigh one over another. I guess this is why I started this thread. Any further discussion and advice are more than welcome.</p>
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She is visiting and stays overnight in both schools to experience the feelings and to sense where she would take as a home. By researching and talking to friends so far, it is really hard to weigh one over another.
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interesting quote ... I certainly understand it academically; these are two of the best schools out there ... academically your daughter can't go wrong. That said, they are in totally different environments ... one in the middle of a big city ... one in a comparitively rural environment ... I would think one of these <em>felt</em> much better on the overnights. The feel of the students might also have differed. If your daughter ignored academics which would she pick? (For me since the academics are essentially a tie I'd go with this pick).</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I don't know about Amherst in particular, but I do know that the selection process for "who gets recommended to the medical programs" is brutal. Before your advisor writes you the required rec. letter, he will study your "chances", and could very well refuse to recommend you. How else can a school have a 95% acceptance rate into med. school?<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Part of the reason why the proces is "brutal" at JHU is that they literally have a couple hundred pre-meds to weed through, even at Johns Hopkins one-half the class is not going to get into med school!
I bow to pymen's knowledge, but I was impressed with Amherst's pre-med program, it seemed to strike the right chords - opportunities for real medical experiences and real counseling. When you hear that students are weeded out, the real question is "What happened to them?" Did someone just say sorry late in the junior year, you don't cut it, or did they receive advice about what classes to take, what scores and grades they needed, what service/internnship opportunities might strength their application, what other health careers or non-health careers might actually suit them better.
I do not mean to single out your child at all, but many students post here intending to become physicians, wanting to know which school will give them the best shot, when what they should be asking is which school will help me learn whether or not medicine is the right choice for me.</p>
<p>I offer this as evidence of Amherst's quality, one of the best pre-med guides on the web - good reading for any student seriously interested in med school.</p>
<p>From my own experience, and also from advising several Amherst premeds over the years, the atmosphere is not overly competitive, and certainly is not "cut throat." There is no deliberate "weeding out" process. Anyone can apply to medical school if they complete the premed requirements. The premed advisors try to help students achieve the post-college goal of a medical career. Prof. George, who heads the premed advisory program, is one of the nicest and most caring individuals one will ever meet.</p>
<p>However, good advice requires being honest about a candidate's chances. If a student has a B- or lower average, it will be very difficult to gain admission to medical school immediately whether they come from Amherst or any other similar school. In such cases, students often are advised to take time off and do something in a medically-related field as well as take some additional science courses part time to enhance their transcripts rather than apply immediately from college. I think the high acceptance rate does not reflect weeding out but rather serious attempts by the premed advisors to help students enhance their application, even after their graduation. It also is possible that a student with little chance for admission C science average or lower will be told so, and they may elect not to apply and decide to follow some other career path. Even then, I doubt the premed committee would actually prevent someone from applying.</p>
<p>I think similar pre-med advising occurs at many top LACs. One advantage is that you can get strong letters from Profs. who know you. Moreover, the advisor may also take time to put together an informative letter. I've been told that Williams has similar acceptance rates. Smith and Wellesley have 80% acceptance rates. When I visited Haverford with my son, we were told they had 100% acceptance to medical school the previous year. These are all way above the national acceptance rate of 35%.</p>