<p>I'm very lucky and grateful to be admitted to both of these schools. I go to a prep school in the SF Bay Area. </p>
<p>I'm not 100% decided on a major, but I'm interested in economics, political science, history, or philosophy. I either want to work in finance (possibly Wall St)/consulting or in government. Right after college, I would like to get a job rather than go directly to grad school. Eventually, I would like to go to business school though.</p>
<p>In terms of social life, I'm kind of wary about Swarthmore. The kids on the group seem pretty ---quirky--- to say the least. Not to be condescending, but they seem kind of nerdy and not my type. But, I realize that facebook groups are not the best indicator for the whole student body. But, on the other hand, I feel (and my parents) kind of wary about Amherst because of the recent rape incidents.</p>
<p>I personally want to have a good balance of academics, extracurriculars, and partying. I'm not too familiar with the location of these two schools, so any insights would be helpful too. </p>
<p>What do you think of both of these schools?? How would you compare the student bodies?</p>
<p>For you? Amherst. And I’m a Williams alum, so I’m more than loath to recommend the 'Herst.</p>
<p>Both schools are ace, of course. Swat is tinier and nerdier and more “social justice warrior”/far-left politically (I mean no disrespect by those characterizations–they could easily be applied to me, in fact).</p>
<p>Swarthmore’s campus is beautiful. It is an arboretum with species of trees growing there that shouldn’t for S’s climate. Lots of trees, long brick walks, gently sloping lawns where alum like to have their weddings. Idyllic, quiet, sylvan–in a fairly bustling suburb of Philadelphia and major metropolitan area. People take their studies seriously, and their quirkiness. Right on a commuter train line; easy in-out of philly and 30th Street Station and Amtrak. Healthy rivalry with Bryn Mawr and Haverford. Quaker values are important to Swarthmore and they attract many students to campus. </p>
<p>Swarthmore is a great school, but unless you like politics 24/7, three meals a day, and served only from the far left side, I’d pick Amherst. And there are plenty of media anecdotes to back up that statement, and it’s not something you normally hear about Amherst.</p>
<p>Q: How many Swarthies does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: That’s not funny!</p>
<p>^^ Yep, that is as accurate as it gets. The left-wing politics at Swat is as thick as it gets for a top school. And because of its size, there is no place to hide from it. </p>
<p>Just search and you will find not anecdotes, but actual facts and events of things the students have done. A bit over the top for such a great school, for me at least. The students are brilliant, but no more so than Amherst or Williams, just very, very different. </p>
<p>Another joke is Amherst and Williams kids are inside running the corporate offices and actually creating things, while the Swat students are outside protesting against the same offices. </p>
<p>As for the rape incidents, do you think it happens any less at any other school? Doubt it; it just happened to get publicized at Amherst this year. Wherever there are drunk college students, this problem will always exist. The question is how public do the incidents become.</p>
<p>HiHow, congratulations on two great options. I hope you’ll be able to visit before you make a decision as the environment and culture of these two schools is quite different. </p>
<p>Swarthmore is in a leafy suburb of a big city. Amherst is a lively college town surrounded by some nice scenery. Both lean left, but Swarthmore tends to be more activist; Amherst more middle-road. The academics are excellent at both, and though students at both take their studies very seriously, Swarthmore students tend to dramatize and Amherst students downplay.</p>
<p>I’d give Amherst the edge on Wall Street and business school; Swarthmore for NGOs and government and international agencies, but really, you’d be well connected at both.</p>
<p>I agree with awcntdb, bad things happen at good colleges, all of them. Swarthmore’s had some negative events too. You just can’t make a decision based on isolated incidents.</p>
<p>If you would take the time to read about the Amherst rape in question, you would realize that the issue is not rapes but rape–and not rape alone but how the Amherst administration responded to the accusations raised by the victim. So this is not a case for easy dismissal, of “this happens everywhere,” but the possibility that the college played “blame the victim” and sought to remove her from the dorms and the campus. A slightly more complex matter than “rape happens everywhere,” and much more damning of the college should the victim’s accusations prove true. </p>
<p>@jkeil911 - I am not sure I agree with your assessment because it assumes that rape victims go public at other schools when confronted with a similar situation. </p>
<p>Just because the Amherst admin did not responded well in the situation does not mean others schools do respond well. There is no corresponding info to support that conclusion. </p>
<p>In fact, unless a victim does go forward, such as in the Amherst case, it could just as easily be that others schools are worse in handling such cases. </p>
<p>One issue with publicity is the difficulty in logically interpreting the data point because of the emotions involved - publicity is necessary and vital to cleaning things up and making the environment safer, but it can also shine a spotlight on one school, when worse may be easily happening at another. </p>
<p>Think if it this way - can not the same or worse be happening at other schools and there is no female brave enough to come forward? Given there are over 3,000 colleges and universities in the country, I would say statistically that is way more likely than Amherst being a lone wolf in not dealing with this issue well.</p>
<p>And another argument could be that with the spotlight on Amherst, it is far safer now than other schools, which are unreported, but have similar or worse problems with dealing why such cases.</p>
<p>Surely, other admins may be handling rape accusations poorly, but you have no evidence that they are. But this only detracts from the point.</p>
<p>What matters is that Amherst is accused of this egregious behavior towards a student and in protection of what someone saw as the school’s interests. Why should it matter whether or not other schools have behaved similarly?</p>
<p>If a person is accused of arson, does that mean people shouldn’t be concerned about the accused because other people commit arson?</p>
<p>What kind of thinking is this you are proposing?</p>
<p>Note the word “accused”. There has been no settlement and the facts are still in dispute. On the flip-side, there is currently a lawsuit against Swarthmore for violating the rights of a male student in an alleged sexual misconduct case. They’re accused of tossing him out without due process. Do you think all males should avoid Swarthmore? </p>
<p>If you read up on the case, that may be a good idea, but again, the facts are in dispute.</p>
<p>as a matter of fact, I would think twice about sending my child to any school in which the administration has been accused of this kind of behavior, yes. I would certainly want to satisfy my concern that this could happen to me and my child.</p>
<p>Even if this case had happened on L&O:SVU, there would be little anyone could do - she made the accusation a year after it happened. There was no evidence, she was reluctant to confront the person she was accusing, even in a college administrative hearing, let alone a real court of law. Sorry, but if you want to accuse someone of something horrific and have them punished, you better be able to prove it, not have the guy taken out back and shot because you say so.</p>
<p>As someone in the comments section of the article noted, “We need to do two things which are hard to do simultaneously. We need to presume the honesty of rape victims, and presume the innocence of the accused. The amount of dissonance in those two presumptions can be staggering - circumstances often demand that both cannot be true.”</p>
<p>I don’t want to hijack this thread, since it’s about OP choosing between Amherst and Swarthmore. Suffice it to say, though, that reports like this happen in a lot of places. Amherst just happened to be the school that got publicized in the news for it. I’m not saying that it’s right or that they are blameless, or even that it shouldn’t be taken into account when deciding on Amherst. But there have been stories like this at several other elite institutions, two at least involving professors (Yale and Northwestern, in recent memory). The details are murky, though.</p>
<p>Given your needs, it seems like Amherst is the better fit for you.</p>
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<p>But that’s not what the article, or what her complaint, was about. The student says that her counselor questioned her, suggesting that the rape may have just been a bad hook-up (something counselors and anyone who works with students who may have been potentially sexually assaulted are told NEVER to do). Her request to change residence halls was denied; of course we don’t know why, but I’ve worked in res life and generally if a student feels unsafe or threatened we try to facilitate a switch. She also says that she was advised to “forgive and forget.”</p>
<p>If she wanted him expelled on her word, her feelings are understandable but of course unenforceable. But to me, the issue seems to be a lack of sympathy about her situation and her feelings, and an inability or unwillingness to help her navigate those feelings. A good rape crisis counselor could potentially help her work through her fear of being in the same room with him and bolster her up if she really wanted to pursue a disciplinary hearing - OR a good rape crisis counselor could reassure her that it’s totally okay that she didn’t want to proceed with the case and try to help her get her life back on track afterwards. Regardless of what happened that night, she clearly feels traumatized and upset, and supporting the survivor (regardless of what people think happened) is very important.</p>
<p>I agree we shouldn’t hijack the thread, but I think there are enough questions about the Amherst case that it wouldn’t affect my decision about letting my daughter attend. (She’s already gotten a talk about what to do in such a situation, and will get one again before she leaves.) OTOH, there are sufficient questions about the behavior of Swarthmore in a similar case toward the male involved that I would hesitate sending my son there, but there are a lot of alarming things about Swarthmore that I would question, despite it’s fine academic reputation.</p>
<p>When you come right down to it, it’s really OPs personal preference, and I wouldn’t criticize their choice either way. I know what I and my kids would pick, but my kids aren’t going to either school, at least not this year. D already has her school. We’ll see what S does in five years, if he would live up to his potential and get off the Nintendo!</p>