<p>one more thing. it isn't that hard to get a paid position at a university.<br>
towards the end of my senior year, i knew i wanted to get out ot long island asap, so i sent my resume to a famous lab at yale where many of the articles i had read were published. the process was almost too easy - i went in for an interview, and bang - i got paid for a summer and i got my own dorm room. All it takes is some initiative...</p>
<p>Thank you for the honest post....do you think if you hadn't had such a strong group of people supporting you that you have done as well? Do you think it is possible for a student with an idea but little support (art, family, money, coaches, etc) could do it? Could you? </p>
<p>I admire all your work. Your honesty as well. But I just wonder....</p>
<p>Initiative is one thing, location and freedom to do what you want are something quite different. Some people have all the initiative in the world, but the resources just aren't there, sad to say.</p>
<p>As an aside, does any one know the breakdown of geographic location of entrants, semi and finalists?</p>
<p>Im an Intel participant from Brooklyn, NY. Im currently working at a lab, and I agree with the original NYT article that said its all bull. The doctors help you with everything. Finalists are awarded cus they get lucky!!!! Thank you very much. BTW, i hope to get into Cornell this fall. :)</p>
<p>I used to think that winning as the only way to get into a great school. Parents: Please....do not think that. It is NOT true. I know i am not going to be a semi-finalist, even though my school consistently regurgitates at least 3 every year. But hey, im applying to great schools like Cornell, Brown, NYU, and JHU. My dream school is Cornell, and as far as wat many advisors have told me, I have a great chance with Early Decision, which I will do. I dont need to be a semifinalist. Its such a formality, and its so rigged and unfair.</p>
<p>I wish you much luck!!! Seeing things for what they are and sharing honestly- good for you..have fun at Cornell ;)</p>
<p>Thank You very much!!!! i hope i get in so badly...its my dream.....</p>
<p>By the way, PARENTS: I greatly respect all of you for taking the time to discuss these college issues amongst yourselves. I have very dedicated parents, who really place their hearts and souls into their only son :) They are very proud of me, and they support me in my ambitious goals.</p>
<p>If you have any questions about Cornell, college admissions, criteria, things your kids should do freshman/sophomore/junior year to have a good record or Intel related things, please, dont hesitate to post up a question here.</p>
<p>I just got back from visiting ISEF an hour ago (Intel Science and Engineering Fair). Its really awesome that it was held in Phoenix this year, cause I got to visit!</p>
<p>Yeah, the one thing that was going through my mind is how these finalists came up with/researched their projects. A lot of the engineering and space stuff is easy to understand, but much of the medicine/bio/chem/physics stuff just goes right over your head. My friend, who a finalist himself at ISEF, said that most of the people in Medicine and Health had mentors, and they just picked up on whatever research their mentors were doing.</p>
<p>But even then, its a lot of work goes into it. Everyone there was amazing. It was really cool to see some of the smartest high schoolers in the world gathering there. I had a blast just wandering around the exhibits.</p>
<p>silmon77, if you're going back and see a korean freshman from Wisconsin, could you tell him his bro says hi? p<.00001 but still.
;)
I wish I went</p>
<p>lol u know what, while I was there I saw an Asian, and his name tag said he was from Wisconsin. I think he was in the engineering category...</p>
<p>1st prize from the American Chemical Society </p>
<p>society awards dont mean crap :(</p>
<p>Given that my son was an Intel finalist this year, this thread has attracted my interest.</p>
<p>Nobody denies that mentors play a crucial role in a high school studentÂs success in science research competitions. The Intel Corporation and Science Service are the first to admit thisÂthey love reminding everyone how important it is for young and old minds to work together. But there are three reasons why I feel people on this thread are mistaken to underestimate the originality of students who performed their projects in a professional laboratory.</p>
<p>First, TONS of students work in professional labs, receive guidance, and end up doing great work. In the Intel Science Talent Search alone there were over 1,600 applicants. So what distinguished the top 300 (semifinalists) or the top 40 (finalists)? It was the particular level of originality, the extent to which the students understood their projects, their ability to interpret and analyze data, the quality of their explanations (both in writing and in person, to experts and to laypersons), andÂperhaps most importantlyÂhow the students handled unexpected data and took the project in a new, exciting direction. So I think that itÂs unfair to claim that all one needs to be an Intel semifinalist is a good connectionÂthousands upon thousands of kids around the country who worked their butts off in a laboratory with a great mentor know that thatÂs not true.</p>
<p>Second, the creative aspect of science research often has little to due with the initial choice of a topic area. In my sonÂs case, while the general area of study was in the mentor's field, the specific topic of research arose out of something that my son noted in his reading, which in collaboration with the mentor, led to the focus of the study. In fact, my son was first author of the paper, which has since been published in a major journal.
So, its not the initial contact but where the student takes it that makes the difference.</p>
<p>Furthermore, having gone to Washington to see the finalists' exhibits, it was striking how many kids clearly had ownership of their work one girl (currently my sonÂs girlfriend, actually) cracked a complex protein structure, primarily due to her own ingenuity. In her lab, she was essentially the only one working on this specific protein, and still managed to beat out competing professionals from around the country. Another finalist devised his own invention that harnesses energy from ocean wavesÂout of spare parts found in his basement. ---Even in cases where the student did not necessarily have the level of creativity or inventiveness of these particular kids, their brilliance and degree of mastery of the subject was mind-boggling. </p>
<p>So, having had the opportunity to see this whole thing up close, it seems to me that there is way more than Âluck involved in the Intel selection process.</p>
<p>Chyln states, "Grad students, which I think for the most part are not that much unlike high school students, need the support of their labs."</p>
<p>That is true in a financial sense but far less so in an academic sense, a point to which much of the NYT's article speaks. Almost all of my grad students over the years took coursework out of their major, particularly math and chemistry, to enable them to tackle their dissertation research. </p>
<p>This is true for several reasons. First and foremost, candidates are required to produce a work of original research so academic ethics are involved. Secondly, we faculty are often ill equipped to give them any meaningful advice in ancillary fields. The candidates often teach us something in these specialty areas.</p>
<p>I do agree that we are often instrumental in assisting candidates in selecting areas in which to conduct their PhD research. Often it is because we have the facilities and grant monies to support them. And the best candidates usually base their grad school decision on a particular faculty member's research. </p>
<p>In my opinion it is silly for a potential PhD candidate to desire to attend a grad school based on some "ranking" system. Rather that student should be looking to be mentored by a particular faculty member whose research is in the specific area that student wants to study. The best students often do just that.</p>
<p>kadinsky-
i read your very long post- every single word of it..and you know what? i'm pretty darn inspired. It's so true, many of us aren't geniuses..it takes a good amount of hard work to get "there." I'm currently very interested in research. Although I have absolutely no experience whatsoever, i don't see that it'll hurt to try it. i'd like to know more about you and the paths you took.<br>
i need some help.</p>
<p>oh one more thing, kadinsky..does it hurt that I don't have a...satisfying amount of prior knowledge on the topic...for instance, i like chemistry. i'm currently taking a 10 Honors chemistry class. next year, i'll be taking the ap course. (big deal) and that's about it.
I don't even know how to operate serious lab equipment! </p>
<p>I've never been to a science enrichment camp or whatever. does that hurt?i</p>
<p>i'm also a long islander and i know that a lot of students go to stonybrook labs...so even if i do email some of the proferssors..what exactly are my chances?</p>
<p>i almost feel as if all this is impossible. but i know it can happen if i try and it will happen if i really want it.
you know what i mean, you've been thru this ;]</p>
<p>The forms to enter the local Intel science fairs require the name of an adult sponsor, in otherwards, a mentor. It's not unusual for students to perform science projects that look like they must have been done by a mentor; a boy at a local high school has done research involving organ synthesis. This is extremely high-level work, but it is his own work. Judges at science fairs know what questions to ask to find out if the work is the student's own. I know; I've been a judge.
Also, the idea of a mentor suggesting a topic is not as outrageous as it seems at first. Sometimes, the mentor suggests a field of study or a question that needs to be solved. The student must still design the project by himself or herself and run it. These projects are often incredibly complex and require an equally complex design. Often, the mentor helps the student past the scientific equivalent of "writer's block" and gives them guidance about how to execute the project once the student has designed it.</p>
<p>Well, after hearing about this article, at least I don't feel completely like a dumb@$$ anymore--I was always amazed at how high schoolers could conceive of research on such obscure topics, and have the means to carry them out. Now I know.</p>
<p>Hopefully, I'll be able to engage in research at Dartmouth, but we'll see.</p>
<p>I disagree with the author of this post. It takes a lot of student initiative and intelligence to get there, along with help from adults.</p>
<p>I received a SEAP position at the Naval Research Laboratory for the summer and am hoping to come out with a project that is Intel worthy.</p>
<p>^ By your own admission, you 'expect' the Office of Naval Research to 'hand' you a project. The project may be of your liking or may not be. The 'help' may be extensive or may not be. </p>
<p>The only initiative kids take was to apply.</p>
<p>No one is arguing that kids don't work hard, but often it is team of student A+'support A' vs team of student B+'support B'.</p>