An honest look at how Intel Finalists get there

Parents Forum
201

<p>Thank you so much for that post, Donemom. I was beginning to feel very discouraged about the cynicism on this thread. I was looking for some guidance in helping my son format his Intel entry, but there was none here.</p>

<p>Another point of view:
I hope my S will submit his research paper to the Intel. His school has not been involved so far -- he goes to an international school and some of the folks dismiss the ISTS as "some American thing." Some of the teachers that have seen his data don't believe that he wrote it himself -- but he did. Every line of code was cooked by him. He worked every single day over summer vacation, and during school vacations this past year. The school does not excuse him from class to work on it -- even when they go on a bowling field trip (as they did last week). That said, school administrators are willingly helping with the paperwork, even though they are unsure about ISTS and his chances. I get the sense that they don't believe that this school can produce a science winner -- but I hope that S WILL become a Semifinalist at least, and open the door for some of the bright kids at this school who are science-minded.</p>

<p>He has a mentor, more like an angel. A 10th grade science teacher recommended my S for a 2-wk. internship at the European Southern Observatory during the Venus Transit. Based on my S's work, his wonderful mentor at ESO hired him on a project basis. The project in question is one of those. Amazing Mentor helped S get started, then left him on his own for the duration. S has a key and a building pass. S could not have done this project without his mentor's help, but S. did the work, wrote the scripts, learned the astronomy-specific computer code, worked the Fourier Transforms, and I don't know what else (S says "it's one of those forget-it things, Mom").</p>

<p>Neither S's dad or I are university professors. S's dad doesn't have a college degree, and I have a BA in Art History and teach art free-lance.</p>

<p>Not sure what point I'm trying to make here, but maybe it will help put things in perspective. Opportunities arise, but the interest and drive have to be there on the part of the student, I guess.</p>

<p>M.
P.s. My son would be happy as a clam working at ESO for the rest of his life. These scientists (from many different countries) are first-rate human beings and they treat him like an equal. They say "I received your data, Dr. T--", ha ha, many of them don't know he's only 17!!!</p>

202

<p>Congratulations on your son's ingenuity and dedication! He sounds amazing! Good luck to him on his entries...he should enter in both the Seimen's Westinghouse and the Intel (the former applicationis not nearly as labor intensive). Whatever happens, it sounds like he really is passionate about his work, and that is a wonderful thing.</p>

203

<p>Yes, your son should enter everything! It's a fantastic experience no matter what the outcome. And he will come away with a better understanding of the "politics" of things like this, including college admissions.</p>

<p>I also have the experience of seeing all the finalists in Washington one year before the final awards were given, and questioned many of them. Took our S2 in hopes of inspiring him. But frankly, Donemom, it was less than inspiring. My favorite project was one that was clearly the work of one passionate student with a helpful high school teacher in the background. It was extremely creative in the way she pursued the answer to the larger problem. It was not a "hot" topic. She did not win a major prize.</p>

<p>At the same time, I personally found at least 4 out of the 50 finalists who were absolutely clueless--all I asked them was "what made you interested in this?" and the answer was "Well, my mentor... my father...etc." They had been guided through it, had no interest in the subject, were sleepwalking. My husband found others that were the same. Plus, there were certain schools that were overrepresented; clearly the science faculty make this a big deal, a class project, and the best ones get submitted. Some of those projects didn't deserve to be finalists, but they had the name of a powerhouse school.</p>

<p>In short, even if your son does not win a major prize, or even make the finals, he will learn a great deal about life, and how to be proud of his effort since he did his best.</p>

204

<p>Fascinating thread. My son won a local prize at a science fair last year, and was interested in doing something challenging for this year. This thread validated my initial thought that he'd need someone to help him. I read some of the abstracts for science contest winners, plus the resumes of some high achievers on this site (genetic research in 10th grade, etc..) and realized that he'd probably need some initial inspiration and guidance.</p>

<p>Maybe we'll check out the college where he did a week-long engineering camp this summer.</p>

<p>Thanks for the perspective/insight!</p>

205

<p>Perhaps he needs someone to help him if the goal is to be a "contender". I think he can have a valuable experience either way.</p>

206

<p>Thanks, 1moremom. I just called the college he attended over the summer and left a message! This site is a great source of inspiration, motivation! :-)</p>

207

<p>Reading this thread makes me miss ISEF:( Phoenix was sooooo much fun, like the best week of my life. Too bad I'm in college now and don't have a chance to go again. And for people who want to go--you don't have to have mentors and fancy research facilities. I did my project all in my high school laboratory.</p>

208

<p>'An honest look at how Intel finalists get there'</p>

<p>absolute bs.. i just went through 5 months of hardcore research to get a paper in for siemens.. and im not even guaranteed semifinalist.. don't generalize and throw bs at us... its hurts people like me who really did do all the research.</p>

209

<p>I would change the name of the thread if I could. I sincerely apologize. The article looks at how some Intel finalists get there, not by any means all of them. Those of you whose wonderful kids did this on their own should be very proud, but also, I would think, disturbed by those like the ones described there (and I'm sure it happens other places) who have the project and much of the work handed to them. It does cheapen the image for the others.</p>

<p>That's it for me on the subject, and again, my apologies to those who really do this on their own.</p>

210

<p>I'd hate to disagree with a lot of people after 11 pages of others convincing people that the students do, in fact, deserve the recognition they get for compeitions like Intel. But you have to admit that there are many many factors that tilt this competition in favor of certain people.</p>

<p>I, personally, wanted to do a research project and enter it into Intel but I was unable to. I'm the basic, unwealthy, unconnected, public high school student that some of you claimed could put a competitive project together by going to a nearby university or just having the initiative to find a mentor, but it's really not that easy.</p>

<p>I was able to hook up, completely on my own, with a research lab for 2 summers and I was promised both summers to be able to have my own project. But it never happened. Either the director forgot or was too busy, and I couldn't bring myself to ask him to give me (and advise) a project when I was there volunteering to work for him, not the other way around. Even if you can find someone to work under in research it's a lot of work for them to take time out of their research to help you. This is where it is EXTREMELY handy to be part of an organized research program like at some of these private/magnet schools or to have a connection to someone who would do it for you based on his/her relationship with your family.</p>

<p>And although (perhaps) math is an exception where you can do all of the research on your own, I am not interested in math. There was also no way that I could have gotten the resources to support my own experiments, I looked up the prices of some of what I worked with at that lab and I couldn't near afford the disposable items, nevermind actual equipment.</p>

<p>That was a bit of a rant, so I apologize. And maybe I just wasn't resourceful enough, but in reality I'm sure there are very very few kids in a typical high school position who could be.</p>

<p>The point I'm trying to make is that even if there are one or two kids who did it all on their own without help from a program, premier education, or other resources that come with wealth or connection, that the majority of kids who do succeed at these competition don't fall into this category. Just look at the list of semi-finalists and especially finalists, there is no way that the country's scientific brain power is concentrated into that few schools.</p>

<p>Perhaps it is a waste to complain about something that is "unfair" as that is how life is. Students don't get the same education and don't have the same opportunities. There's a MUCH smaller chance of someone discovering something new in the field of math if their school does not offer calculus, and in the same respect there is a small chance someone like me whose school does not offer AP science classes will win a science competition like this one. And I'm pretty sure only me and maybe one other person in my whole school of a few thousand have even heard of these kind of competitions.</p>

211

<p>"I couldn't bring myself to ask him to give me (and advise) a project when I was there volunteering to work for him, not the other way around"</p>

<ul>
<li>you have to be determined and maybe even persistent to get your own project. unless your rsi or in an established school mentorship, you have to be persistent in your goals.. whats the worse thing they can say? sorry. and then you look for another place.</li>
</ul>

<p>im sorry to hear you couldn't get an opportunity to work at a research lab. i really think they should do a better job of getting motivated high school students such as yourself more involved in research. but, remember use your resources. where do you live? environmental studies can be done anywhere and are unique to regions. there are several significant studies that can be done with simple tools.</p>

212

<p>Just wanted to point out an exception. Last year I went to ISEF without a mentor. My friend was a national finalist in STS without significant contributions from a mentor- this kid was literally a genius. Kids still do hard work.</p>

213

<p>Thank you so much for those encouraging responses. Donemom, I tried to send you a PM to thank you, but your box is full?</p>

<p>I think the Siemens/Westinghouse is a group-project competition that is first won on the district or state level, or? If so, he isn't eligible for it, as we are out here on our own.</p>

<p>Thanks so much again, S was very happy and heartened to read the nice responses from you, Donemom and wyogal.</p>

<p>Best to you,
M.</p>

214

<p>Siemens also has an individual competition, though I believe only HS seniors are allowed to compete individually. Check out the website.</p>

215

<p>Thanks 1moremom! I am googling it right now. What's one more batch o' papers in this crazy college app season.
Best,
M.</p>

216

<p>It's actually too late -- deadline is Monday. S's project is not entirely finished, he will be wrapping it up at ESO the last week of Oct. But thanks for the suggestion anyway.</p>

<p>Here is a link for anyone who will be eligible next year:
<a href="http://www.siemens-foundation.org/competition/default.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.siemens-foundation.org/competition/default.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cheers!</p>

217

<p>I'm kind of deviating from the topic..
but exactly what kind of experiments don't require all those hardcore equipments and some geniuses to do?</p>

<p>I decided to do a science fair project but I just can't afford many things the winners can. Is there any topic that don't require these things. The worst part is that I would have to do this project 100% in my house.</p>

<p>the only subject that seem not to require this kind of things is math. I'm interested(and good at) math, but what exactly can I do in math?</p>

<p>there just seems nothing left for me to do... I'm confused!!! What exactly is the competition looking for??</p>

<p>please give me some advice..</p>

218

<p>^that's almost exactly the way I feel...</p>

219

<p>If you google past Intel finalists, you will see some who won the awards for math. Here is one for 2002-3:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sciserv.org/sts/62sts/Byrnes.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sciserv.org/sts/62sts/Byrnes.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

220

<hr>

<p>You're all so bitter ........</p>

<p>I'm not related to any professors or lab directors, but I've worked my nuts off networking through the right people to finally get the intership that I'm using for Siemens Westinghouse and Intel. Science is social and its competitive ... some have an edge, some create one ... we're not all created equal.</p>

<p>oh and some stats....</p>

<p>dad: manager
mom: housewife
internship: 10 weeks at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven National Laboratory, still analysing data!!</p>

<p>how'd I do it? Cause I know the Curator of the Houston Musem of Natural Sciences!</p>

<p>how do I know the Curator of the Houston Musem of Natural Sciences? Cause I won a summer internship from them.</p>

<p>how'd I win a summer internship from them, cause I've been going to tens of cometitions since 6th grade.</p>

<p>deal with it, get over it and COMPETE!!</p>

<hr>