An interesting story on an Ivy League student and would-be Rhodes Scholar in The Chronicle of Higher Education

Okay, Roycriftmom, I’ve registered and have read the Chronicle article as you suggested. A few things stand out to me.

  1. Ms. Fierceton identified herself as first gen, based on U Penn’s own definition of first gen, “first in her family to pursue higher educationat an elite institution” or “have a strained or limited relationship with the person in your family who holds a bachelor’s degree.” Duh. She qualifies as first gen in spades by both of these definitions. Penn accepted her self-identification as first gen without question when she applied as an undergrad. It seems reasonable that she would continue to identify herself as “first gen” when she was applying to grad school at that very same institution. It seems immaterial that she identified as first gen for grad school anyway, given that her credential were sterling and as a result would have had no difficulty being accepted whether she identified herself as first gen or not. Identifying herself as first gen for the Rhodes Scholarship is probably a continuation of the same practice, but by that time she should probably have known better and should have read the Rhodes definition rather than continuing with the Penn designation. But hardly the behaviour of someone who might be considered ‘canny” or devious as Penn and later the Rhodes subcommittee have claimed.

  2. Her diary represents contemporaneous documentation of the abuse from her mother, verifying that her later submissions to Penn and Rhodes are not post facto inventions but are rather reports of her circumstances as she understood them. Contemporaneous writings are generally accepted in court as evidence to verify other reports of events and state of mind. They should be given the same weight here.

  3. The Rhodes committee claims that it “reviewed extensive evidence gathered from confidential whistleblowers. What?! Talk about misrepresentation! Whistleblowers in both general parlance and in legal definitions are understood to be employees who report illegal or unethical practices of their employer. Their status is protected and confidentiality is provided because they can lose their job fir doing the right thing and because they are in a relationship in which the employer has all the power and they have none. None of that applies here. Ms. Fierceton has NO power in this situation. There are no whistleblowers here. And to identify her vindictive, self-serving mother or anyone else as such is frankly a blatant falsehood, a lie. And “confidential”?! Why? What happened to the right to defend oneself by confronting their accuser? The behaviour of both Penn and the Rhodes subcommittee in this situation appear to be highly unethical.

  4. The people who came to know Ms. Fierceton best at Penn are the 2 professors who have assisted her with her lawsuit and who in doing so have operated in ways that her contrary to their own self-interest. In a court of law so doing would be considered to enhance their credibility. They believe her implicitly. The other person who came to know her well was Nurse Sherry McClain, who cared for her and wiped the blood out of her hair at the hospital after the incident with her mother. McClain said that she found nothing untruthful in Ms. Fierceton’s report of the incident at the hospital and described her at that point as “a broken child.”

  5. Dr. Morrison, her mother, is clearly a sick woman. Who does this to their own daughter? Her behaviour is rife with conflicts of interest. Ms. Fierceton’s father is never mentioned. He seems to have abandoned her. Both have eschewed their financial responsibility to her by walking away from her college financing despite having the ability to pay for it.

  6. Upon completion of her master’s degree, Penn sent Ms. Fierceton an e-mail, congratulating her for meeting all of the requirements for her degree. But now they are withholding that same degree?! I know that they can get away with that, but how is that ethical? She completed all the requirements for the degree, but no degree. How dare they? No wonder she’s suing them.

My take on this is that the behaviour of the officials at Penn has been reprehensible. They ignored their own policies and definitions as they turned on this student. They whitewashed their own participation in exaggerating and disseminating her narrative, which they later claimed was false. Uh, where had they been for the previous 6 years? Most reprehensible of all was their secret communication with the Rhodes Trust. That is just shocking. If they wanted to do that, they clearly had the obligation to inform Ms. Fierceton. (Example: “Ms. Fierceton, we regret to inform you that we feel compelled to submit to the Rhodes Trust information that has come to our attention . . .”) Instead, they went behind her back, giving her no opportunity to defend herself and no knowledge of where these allegations were coming from. They owed her that at the very least.

For its part, the Rhodes Trust subcommittee seemed to treat her as guilty until proven innocent. Everything in its report as represented here seems colored by what they received from Penn. Their “investigation” seems intended just to verify Penn’s secretive accusations. So they submitted a rehash of what had been handed to them.

Everything about this stinks.

17 Likes

Penn needs to tighten up that definition of “First Generation” Especially that bit about being estranged from members of the Family with a college degree…in that case all the members of the Roy family from Succession would be able to claim First Generation status! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

3 Likes

Wait! What now?! :open_mouth:

If an applicant’s parent(s) didn’t go to an “elite institution” - whichever way Penn defines that (just Ivys? just Penn?) - then their education doesn’t count and the kid is “first gen”? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

But seriously, I find it hard to believe UPenn would use this definition. Do you have a link to the source? I couldn’t find this definition on their website.

4 Likes

You make many assumptions without evidence. Neither you nor I saw her 2015 UPenn application, so we do not know if/how she completed the section on her parents education. That expanded definition was not on the application, nor do we know if it was even in use 7 years ago. The question on the application appears quite straight forward, and offered a chance to explain if she wished.

We do not know anything about her relationship with other faculty members or staff, other than the few cited. Quite possible others know her better and are not sympathetic.

Schools withholding degrees based upon new information regarding student misconduct is not new and is spelled out in the handbooks.

Neither of us have further knowledge of her biological parents so are not in a position to draw conclusions. Presumably their attorneys have different stories.

What I do know a bit about is the Rhodes process at elite schools. Intensely competitive among already intense students, the student had to fight her way through her classmates as competitors to get it. I doubt they agree that her behavior was ethical.

She could have just told the truth. There is that.

3 Likes

One place this definition is listed on the “Penn First” website, but Penn First is a student organization, not Penn admissions or administration.

The definition has already been changed….

We have multiple support systems on campus such as the FirstGeneration, Low Income (FGLI) program which began in 2016. Students who will be the first in their families to graduate from college, or who come from low-income families, receive guidance regarding their academic, personal, and social needs while providing a close-knit sense of community.

https://admissions.upenn.edu/penns-first-generation-low-income-program-fgli

Yes, it’s stated in the Chronicle article, which is linked at the beginning of the post. I quoted that article, and the author quoted Penn.

2 Likes

At least two of the posters above stated that the anonymous letters to UPenn and Rhodes were written by the mother, but the only person who is saying that seems to be Fierceton herself according to the pillow talk article. Could have been anyone she went to private school with in her hometown.

2 Likes

Does seem like speculation. Adding the Rhodes report said (according to the Chronicle article) whistleblowers plural:

“According to a 15-page report, completed last April, a committee at the trust “reviewed extensive evidence gathered from confidential whistleblowers,” along with information handed over by the university and from Fierceton herself.”

1 Like

I think the entire situation is awful, and as a former college administrator, I would have been ashamed of my employer had they so publicly humiliated a student. I am sure that things could have been handled much better than they were. IMO, the school should never have allowed things to progress to the point they did.

11 Likes

I’m making many assumptions.? First of all, I’m simply reacting to the multiple articles I’ve read about this case. Same as you and everyone else here. You’ve compared her to Jason Blair for goodness sakes. Based on what? No assumptions there?

Second, you bring up her application and what may or may not have been on it, and what she might/should have done about it. You neglect to point out that Penn accepted this application when they could have requested more information and/or documentation. The application process is a 2-way street. Both sides have responsibility.

On what basis are you speculating that other faculty may have known her better? We have 2 faculty her are now intimately involved with her lawsuit. They have obviously gotten to know her better than normal student-faculty relationships would develop. Neither has withdrawn from the case as they have gotten to know her better. The hospital nurse was also in a position to know her better during that incident and she also corroborated her story. It seems to me that you are the one making assumptions by speculating that there may be other faculty who may have known her better. There may not have been too. I don’t know where that speculation gets us. I’m basing my reaction t the case on the evidence put before me. If you have other evidence, please share it.

As far as schools having the right to withhold degrees, I acknowledged that in my post. I know they have that right, but I’m also of the opinion that them doing it in this case is highly unethical. I’d love to see how often they do it and for what reasons. What’s not being said is that a university’s first obligation is to the education and welfare of their students, in this case, they’ve done just the opposite. They acted in a devious manner. They undermined her Rhodes scholarship without even telling her. The girl obviously has issues and I see no evifdence that they have done anything to help with that. My goodness, they have professionals from within their own faculty opposing them. What more evidence do we need? In this case, Penn’s priority has been to protect their institutional concerns and has shown little or no regard for the student whom they have instead blackmailed by withholding her graduate degree and threatened to revoke her undergrad degree. Disgraceful!

What further information do you need to know about her mother? What could possibly justify her behaviour in multiple aspects of this case? I agree that we don’t know anything about her father. For all we know he could be dead. But if he’s living, he’s apparently abandoned her.

As far as your last point is concerned, you’re now calling her a liar??? That’s exactly what’s in dispute, so there’s no basis for you to state as fact that she has not told the truth. The 2 faculty members have vouched for her. The nurse has said there’s nothing untruthful in her version of what happened. By saying that she should have told the truth, you’re simply choosing sides and in so doing, are taking the side of the institution with all the power over the student whose needs that they’re supposed to be serving.

What’s gone completely unmentioned in all this is that when Ms. Fierceton completed her college application, she was a teenager, completely inexperienced in this and without parental guidance. Reflect on that for a moment. If she made mistakes, that’s understandable. She was just a kid. She then went through 4 years of college and applied to grad school without any parental guidance. I have 4 grown kids who are adults with their own careers. My wife and I still offer them advice and support.

Contrast that with the university which has multiple staff to work this out. They have a bevy of lawyers to advise them. Despite this, they have treated this student horribly. They have reportedly acted with malice. This whole campaign of theirs has been completely unethical. What’s their excuse?

You have criticized me for making assumptions. I don’t think I have. But let me turn it around and suggested that you have been very one sided in your analysis. You have repeatedly criticized the actions if an adolescent/young woman and at the same time have not held the university’s feet to the fire in any way.

6 Likes

No point in responding. Moderators, thread seems to have run its course

I’m keeping it open for now, with the general comment that not every post warrants a response. Nor is there a reason for one to get sucked into debate.

4 Likes

There may be some grey areas on both sides, but I choose to give grace to a resilient young woman rather than Penn, who chose to use its endless resources to scapegoat her in a PR situation if its own making.

5 Likes

Since I had to edit the very first post after my last note, allow me to add my standard message.

Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."

and

“College Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else… If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.”

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/guidelines

3 Likes

Fairly unbiased and suggests all involved have some fault.

1 Like

Here’s a parallel conversation on the same topic with some more interesting points of view.

Would Penn, for sure, count?

2 Likes

From all articles, it seems this is a girl prone to distorting the truth (to say the least) to her advantage:

  1. the four characters from her foster past mentioned in the original article seem fictitious
  2. the prosecutor investigating the alleged abuse she suffered by her mother stated “The more I learned [about the case], the less certain I became about what really happened.”

She also seems quite litigious. From the first article

  1. She is suing the university claiming the university investigation is retaliation for a complaint that the university was conducting lectures in a basement so when she had a seizure medical help had difficulty providing help
  2. in her response to the Rhodes Trust investigation she hired an attorney “it considered evidence and arguments provided by Ms. Fierceton and her attorney”

Whatever happened in her childhood, she went horseback riding, played multiple sports (varsity soccer, basketball, ran cross-country, and earned a third-degree black belt in taekwondo), and attended a private school (even after she went into foster care at the not-so-young age of 17+). She did not have to care for her siblings, work to help her parents and struggle to find a quiet place to do her homework. She could have talked about the trauma of her relationship with her mother without portraying herself as a kid that spent her childhood bouncing between foster homes carrying a trash bag of donated clothes.

9 Likes

It’s weird to me that some people here seem very ready to disbelieve and dislike this girl (with passion, as the tone of posts leads me to feel that), when in reality, we don’t know any facts. For us, she is as innocent as she is guilty, we can’t rely on journalism in this case.
Joan Crawford had lots of pretty pictures of her adopted children getting gifts, but was that the whole story?
What about the girl who had claimed that she was raped and her foster parent let slip to the police that she wasn’t always honest, which led to the girl getting arrested for making the story up? Only because there were eventually other similar cases of rape, did she get freed…I know there was a radio story and a Netflix story about this, if you want the details. Point being, we can’t even know the facts, if we are just going on how we feel about it all.

3 Likes