An Open Letter to Chandler -- Cornell v. Williams

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
101

<p>In response to the poster CayugaRed2005,

I would expect no less! However, your subsequent claims are a bit…let us say… contradictory… At one point in the discussion you expressed on a criticism of your post this reply

Yes, disbelief that your post was at all slanted towards Cornell. And there are a myriad of other examples of this…

My suggestion is far from absurd. You set a precedent that subsequent posters have followed (I am talking about you Monydad-- YOU’RE NEXT~!), for politely paying lip service to Williams (Oh! It’s a great school!) and then STABBING IT IN THE BACK. If you want to argue against it directly, be my guest. At least that would make you honest. But when you write a note that appears reasonable on the surface, and then you slip in blatantly false and backhanded comments like the ones that I cited (ones that you would be called out immediately upon if you even attempted to present them in a direct manner), THAT is when you have crossed the line. </p>

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<p>… but you will (and I quote) “literally know everybody else in your graduating class by the end of your first semester.” NO, NOT EVEN CLOSE.The point I made is valid: you’re handing out some serious baloney.</p>

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No you did both. But let us address the latter statement. This statement is practically a leading question. That statement assumes that there is some sort of “relative homogeneity” at Williams. Is there? How so? Your previous statements cite an unquantifiable homogeneity of “personality.” Ummm… ***?

Well no duh! Cornell’s campus has like three times as many acres as Williams’! But what does that have to do with your “homogeneity of personality”??</p>

<p>But back to your not saying that Williams was easier…</p>

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And what is that supposed to imply if you didn’t mean it to say that Williams was easier? </p>

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Of course Cornell and Williams are different, but that does not mean that your dichotomy is valid. The point is that you make this into an either-or scenario with incredible hyperboles. And THAT, my friend, is just disingenuous. </p>

<p>To ChandlerBing,
None of this is directed towards trying to convince you to come to Williams. Make your own choice; I made mine, and so I feel the need to defend my college from slanderous and backhanded attacks against it.</p>

102

<p>Pawn – </p>

<p>I don’t have the interest in parsing out the meaning of all of my statements to you. Needless to say, I feel you have mistakenly juxtaposed some of my responses to specific points of the conversation with my overarching tone of goodwill towards Williams. Yourself and others are free to place my sensibilities where you see fit. I hope you can agree that reasonable minds can differ.</p>

<p>I also don’t have the interest to delve into whether or not ‘easy’ refers to ‘academic rigor’ or ‘student support network’. Nor do I have the patience to discuss such minutia as the relative percentage of students who compete on traveling athletic teams or attended a private high school. But I will concede that the bit about knowing everybody in your graduating class by January term might be a bit of a hyperbole, even if this is a claim I have heard from Williams students and a sense I developed from eating in a Williams dining hall with a Williams JA. (Hell, I knew of all 300 students in my freshman dorm at Cornell within four weeks of classes.)</p>

<p>And I apologize if you honestly feel that I have stabbed Williams in the back through slander. I have nothing but admiration for Williams. I’m uncertain as to what part of “I have developed a strong respect for the school” is unclear. </p>

<p>Thanks for taking back your statement about the suicides, though. While completely uncalled for, in your retraction you exhibited some tact that is often lacking on these boards.</p>

103

<p>Chandler, I don’t have anything useful to contribute, but seeing as I talked to you way back during the ED days and you’re awesome -</p>

<p>COME TO CORNELL WITH MEEEEEE!</p>

<p>Of course, now that a total stranger (who is deferring for a gap year and won’t even be at Cornell that first year) has posted to a thread in your honor asking you to come to Cornell, you really don’t have a choice in the matter.</p>

104

<p>karajanhra!
I remember you!
You were awesome too :)</p>

<p>But of course, now my decision is very clear, haha.
A gap year, eh? What are you planning to do during your free time?</p>

105

<p>I’ll second karajanhra…choose Cornell and meet cool people like us! :wink: ChandlerBing…I remembered you from the Geneseo board and just had to post on this. I had no idea you were such a popular CCer! :P</p>

106

<p>Hey countryangel! I see you decided on Cornell, awesome!
haha yup I remember you from the Geneseo board: back then I was scared I wouldn’t get into Geneseo, which was a VERY scary time.
I haven’t gotten the Honors decision yet, but it doesn’t really matter anymore ;)</p>

<p>Didn’t you also get a full ride to Vanderbilt? Congrats on Cornell, fellow Amherst waitlistee! (screw Amherst, haha ;))</p>

107

<p>Chandler - I don’t think it should be that difficult of a decision for you. They are completely different schools. The fact you are still wondering is you are concerned about prestige, which is fine. But I think you are over analyzing this whole decision. </p>

<p>My husband and I went to Colgate, very similar to Williams. My husband loved the whole experience - it’s what a college should be. It is a reason why he would like our younger daughter to go to Williams (or a similar LAC). I was bored with the whole social scene after my two years there. I have some of the fondest memories of the school, but it was too small for me. Most students at Colgate had very similar experience there (food fights in the cafeteria, Wed afternoon cocktail parties then into all night parties and taking math examin Thu morning). The nice thing is when you get together with anyone from Colgate around the same period we all have common things to talk about.</p>

<p>At a school like Cornell, you could have a group of friends you hang out with, but most likely you wouldn’t have similar experience as 12,000+ other students. My older daughter finds it exciting and interesting, but it could be intimidating to other people. We went to watch her perform this past Sat. The place was packed with townies, professors, and students. She had 20+ friends there to support her, and most of them were in the Greek life (guys included). When we walked around campus with her, she stopped often to chat with people, but she didn’t know everyone. Whereas at Colgate, I would have known everyone. </p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind is at a small school social life could be very stifling. Most likely, after a year you would have run through all the datable people, especially if you are of any ethnic group. You are just going to have more Jewish, Asians, blacks…at a school like Cornell. I am not implying that you could or should only date people within your own ethnicity, but it may be important to some people. If nothing else, it would be much easier to find people to be friends with at a school like Cornell if you don’t fit the norm.</p>

<p>Chandler - figure out who you are, and choosing between Williams and Cornell should be pretty easy after that.</p>

108

<p>haha it’s strange how one can get torn between two very different schools</p>

<p>I’m ‘deciding’ between UVA arts&sciences echols out of state and Cornell engineering</p>

<p>the fact is at this point we don’t always know exactly what we want to do, after this decision other decisions will be clearer, most likely</p>

<p>also, i think chandler tried to tell the cornell kids that they preferred williams in a less-than-aggressive way but us cornellians are basically rejecting that decision… maybe chandler is less torn than we want =/ but still, come to cornell =]</p>

109

<p>The problem is that the decision is difficult, since I’m not sure whether I want the very small or the very large, but I am leaning towards the small.
I’ll have to visit both, and then make my decision after seeing how well I fit into both campus cultures.</p>

<p>Both were once my first choices, Williams towards the beginning of the process and then Cornell towards the middle. But you’re right, oldfort, in that I should instinctively know which one is better for me.</p>

110

<p>I did get a full ride to Vandy…it was one of the most difficult decisions of my life to have to choose between that and Cornell. But my Cornell FA package was decent, so that made it a little easier. x]</p>

<p>And haha yeah…I was a little upset about Amherst but it doesn’t matter anymore. Good luck with your decision…both Cornell and Williams are amazing schools, and you’ll make the choice that’s right for you in the end :)</p>

111

<p>There are two things I sort of don’t get:

  1. the research U vs. liberal arts college are two highly contrasting environments, my kids sorted this out before applying, and this strongly influenced where they applied in the first place.
    I would think someone who preferred what is best about Cornell would have been applying to other research U’s, and someone agonizing about Williams now would be choosing between it and Middlebury and Amherst, etc. not Cornell.
  2. I don’t get why this thread has gone on for 8 pages. All conceivable pros& cons have been covered, long ago, IMO the guy should have figured out which environment he prefers before he even applied, he will decide now, I frankly don’t care which he chooses, it is a matter of personal preference as to weighting of the various pros & cons, which he will do. To his personal satisfaction. Hopefully he will get it right.</p>
112

<p>@monydad: I applied to Cornell and other Ivies as well as to LA colleges like Amherst. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with applying to a “mix” and then making decisions based on which schools accept you. As someone who is undecided and needs a broad curriculum to figure out what I want to do with my life, Cornell is a great fit, even if it’s not a typical LAC.</p>

<p>Also, I haven’t read through all 8 pages of this thread, but I expect it may have turned into a Williams vs. Cornell debate rather than kept its focus on helping ChandlerBing :P</p>

113

<p>ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why did it turn into a nasty fight thread? And where did UPenn come along all the sudden?</p>

<p>Chandler-- I can only tell you what I’ve been telling myself; I’ll visit and see which school I can see myself at. :)</p>

114

<p>Ahh I tried to let this thread die (since it served its awesome purpose and began to deteriorate…), and I didn’t want to torture any of y’all any longer!</p>

<p>monydad: I disagree with you. There are aspects of both research unis and LACs that appeal to me. I don’t think there must be kids who are “LAC only” or “uni only”. Some kids, just like those who aren’t interested in Econ or Math and are instead heavily vested in Egyptology or Atmospheric Sciences, aren’t best-suited for either or. Both schools were my first choices at different points in the admissions process, and for different reasons. And if I make the wrong choice, I always have the option to transfer. </p>

<p>limetime: Yeah, you’re totally right. The visits are what it’s coming down to for me. I can’t wait!</p>

115

<p>There is no point disagreeing with me, as I am always correct.
This is a seemingly simple principle, yet there must be some subtlety to it, since even my own kids have not mastered it, after all these years.</p>

<p>Whatever competingly attractive aspects there are to these highly contrasting environments could have been ironed out and prioritized beforehand, as they will be now in any event, and then that would have directed where you applied in the first place.
If someone prefers the environment of a williams to a cornell, at the end of the day, then some number of 20 other colleges would likely also have been preferred to cornell, as they offer environments much more similar to williams. some of them you might have preferred to williams, actually; e.g, better language program, more “paisans”, closer to more people/ stuff, access to more courses. You should have applied to more of them, then, to ensure you had more choices among your actually preferred educational environment.</p>

<p>This is how D1 proceeded, and in the end she chose from among a number of liberal arts colleges, all of which she preferred to cornell. So she believed.</p>

<p>Of course, with benefit of hindsight and the LAC experience behind her, if she had it to do over again she’d be picking a larger university. But she still wouldn’t be applying, seemingly indiscriminately, to places whose environments she “dispreferred”.</p>

116

<p>monydad…u forget that one can have the LAC curriculum at Cornell if one chooses to…</p>

<p>the environment might be different but it’s courses that matter…</p>

117

<p>The core group of the standard liberal arts courses are generic among virtually all institutions, and hence the mere presence of such curriculum is hardly even a basis of distinction. </p>

<p>In this country, there are “stand alone” liberal arts colleges, and there are comprehensive universities. And some situations in between, which are not at issue here.</p>

<p>All of them provide a core of liberal arts courses, its precisely the environment, the delivery mechanisms, the environments, that distinguish them. </p>

<p>As a group, the research universities offer far larger course selection, beyond the mere staples, more majors, access to graduate courses and graduate students; more social and extracurricular outlets, and a bigger social swimming pool; however they often have larger classes, with more lectures and TAs. And as a group, the liberal arts colleges offer smaller classes, and a more intimate environment with a more homogeneous student body and a pronounced predominant campus culture, which will influence social options there. But less of everything. Less people, less courses to choose from, etc.</p>

<p>These differences are generic, easily distinguished, and a preference can be established at virtually any point in the college decision process, not just at the end. The differences are stark , and transcend the mere availability of an LAC curriculum at either setting. I just think there are some advantages to deciding on this fundamental distinguishing style issue early on in the college decision process, when it can still influence where you apply in the first place, rather than waiting till the very end.</p>

118

<p>monydad: First of all, I was considering a lot of LACs before applying to my final list of 12 colleges, and eliminated all but Williams and Amherst (those two were the only ones I visited, and the only ones that interested me other than Pomona, which is too far away for me to consider). I seriously considered Swarthmore, Haverford, and Wesleyan but ended up preferring Williams in all cases. I wanted to apply to a variety of schools, not just LACs, and in that category Cornell was my first choice. I applied to a few Ivies, got one waitlist, a few rejections, and an acceptance and went from there. A lot of the choices have to be made AFTER knowing where you’re admitted, and where you’re not. I think it’s simply limiting to apply to only a specific type of school. I have the choice between two amazing, very different schools, and that’s a lot better than having the choice between two amazing but very similar schools.
And I honestly think I’ll be happy at either of my choices.</p>

<p>“There is no point disagreeing with me, as I am always correct”.
Really?
I mean, really?
Wow.</p>

119

<p>Monydad, we are trying to get CB to come to cornell, not to scare her away…</p>

120

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<p>I believe this is sarcasm, Chandler.</p>