<p>""The only intellectuals on campus are burnt out 60s hippies-turned-professors and the girls not pretty enough to become trophy wives.:""</p>
<p>nice, when you resort to calling women not attractive to try and make a point, you lose credibility, and with that attitude, no wonder you have people around you who are as you describe</p>
<p>arrogance is not an attractive quality</p>
<p>Your generalization of college life is totally ridiculous.</p>
<p>What HS students really need to realize is that different campuses have different atmospheres, period. Don't expect Rice to be like Bryn Mawr and don't expect Yale and SUNY Albany to be anything alike...in terms of everything. You obviously didn't do your research if your assumption was that all schools have the same feel. I would encourage you to tell others to look beyond name brands and find a college which is right for them, not a college that will accept people with their stats, not a college everyone tells them is great because it made the top of US News but one that is the right fit.</p>
<p>In my recent time at a huge university I had never met anyone into i-banking, sorry. As for your hard facts, you can find "what's the best school for ______?" all up and through college confidential.</p>
<p>I am going to have to agree that you're a bit arrogant. I question why you must fluff yourself up and also mention that you won't say which school you're at that I would have totally killed my guidance counselor to go to. Seriously, stop chillin with corny people and you won't have such a corny problem with self-absorbed, materialistic, know-it-alls. If you cared about the world trust me you would find the same in a heart beat. </p>
<p>In conclusion (lol), you and your experiences do not epitomize college life.</p>
<p>"((* In my experience, the people in the top 10 are very, very intelligent. Yet the top 10 in my school is largely determined by having planned out which classes to take to maximize one's GPA-- not actual course grades. The people at my school whom I admire most for their intellectual purity generally fall in the rank 30 - 10 range. These people still get excellent grades, but they take time to explore interests even when those classes are not weighted. Of course, I can't speak for all schools or experiences. That's merely how it seems in mine.))"</p>
<p>I agree with this. I'm ranked 30 (haha not to toot my own horn) but the top 10 are the kids who were like "Hmm, I could take an elective that I like, or take AP enviro science... AP FOR ME!" I'm a mixture of having taken non-weighted classes for the few electives I get (IB doesn't give you many) and not really caring as much for math and science courses (<em>gasp</em> I got a few B's, god forbid...). I think GPA shows no correlation to actual intelligence. It's just a pretty number that helps you get into college to meet more kids that sacrificed electives to raise their GPAs.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm applying to a few of the colleges that have been mentioned here. We'll see what happens. I definitely don't have a problem with partying, and I am definitely planning on partaking in that scene a little bit. I have been kept under too tight of a watch here, and I need to "breathe" a bit...</p>
<p>I do want to go into business, but probably not investment banking. I want to manage at an entertainment company like Disney. Haha, OH NOES I won't be starting with a 90k salary and I won't be making my millions within the first 5 years!</p>
<p>I think I'll live.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom: Am I arrogant? Maybe a little bit, but I don't think me stating that the most intellectual young women will likely be the ones forced to provide their own salaries, paints me the way you see me. "with that attitude, no wonder you have people around you who are as you describe" - Oh, so everyone of the same classes and races have the same attitudes?</p>
<p>To abstractstatic: I won't say where I go because I don't like badmouthing this school; I love it. I don't go to Rice.</p>
<p>"Seriously, stop chillin with corny people and you won't have such a corny problem with self-absorbed, materialistic, know-it-alls." - What? Corny? I'm sorry my friends aren't 1337 dungeon masters.</p>
<p>On the top 30 vs. top 10 thing - true to an extent, but not rule. I know intellectual kids who were in the bottom half of my high school class. I think the SAT is a good indicator of intelligence. If one were to graph ranks and SAT scores, at my high school, the graphed data would be a scatter plot with weak coorelation.</p>
<p>In all honesty, on the diversity thing, I think the reason kids tend to stick to their own "kind" or whatever is because they don't know how to gain friends immediately. In high school, I was friends with the smart kids. When we had beach week, my house consisted of the top 6 ranked guys. I mean, I could have sat at any lunch table, with any group of people, but only my immediate friends had educated senses of humor, etc.</p>
<p>I truly believe that since everyone here is smart, students are forced for the first time to look beyond the statifying factor of intelligence.</p>
<p>I'd like to know were everyone who disagrees with me so much, goes to college.</p>
<p>Visirale: </p>
<p>The sacrificing electives things drives me nuts. I would have a class rank about 3 places higher had I not taken drawing, creative writing, and journalism classes. We only have 6 class periods in my high school, so the axe drops on a lot of activities for many people. We also have a slew of completely arbitrary graduation requirements. I couldn't take AP Art Studio because I had to fulfill a "practical arts requirement" to get my diploma. So now I languish in AP Computer Science (which is, at least, better than keyboarding or fashion design).</p>
<p>Fratastic:</p>
<p>Yeah, the 30-10 thing was something of a generalization, not a hard-and-fast rule. There are many kids who are just as bright and thoughtful and intellectual who are not academically motivated and fall in lower ranks in their class. But there are also a lot of students with low class ranks who simply don't care about intellectual pursuits at all. Typically, I've found that the genuinely curious kids are motivated to do reasonably well in school in order to tap as much free knowledge as possible, yet avoid jumping through needless GPA hoops-of-fire. So they seem to populate the upper-but-not-quite-top tier most thickly. But for a hearty disclaimer: exceptions exist in any trend. Top ten students aren't necessarily materialistic GPA manipulators (I'm in the top ten, and I really try and evade the GPA maximizing madness as much as possible, though I've fallen prey to it every once and a while) and the kids in the bottom half aren't dimwits (many have their priorities elsewhere). </p>
<p>I find it peculiar that all your friends were in the top six. My group is pretty diverse in our degrees of academic commitment. The majority are in the upper 30%, but there is a sizable minority who are lower than that. So I don't think "intelligence" (that is, intelligence that is easily perceivable by others) is as much of a stratifying factor for everyone as it seems to have been in your experience.</p>
<p>In any case, I don't <em>entirely</em> disagree with you, since I believe that many top schools are indeed dominated by those with their eyes trained on the dubious prize of an exorbitant salary. I merely think that your observations really cannot be extended to every college or college experience on earth. There are a lot of variables in each school and even just in the sorts of company a person naturally finds herself in. In high school I've found people who are passionate about something other than luxuriating in wads of cash. And many of them are applying to reasonably prestigious schools with a candid interest in furthering their knowledge. These people don't just disappear when you step in the university gates (nor, to be fair, do they materialize in teeming hordes everywhere you look). If you're discontent with the materialism, then you can change your attitudes and goals and find similarly minded individuals. But if what you really, in your heart of hearts, just want to be an investment banker, then for chrissakes! Be an investment banker, hang with the lawyerly types, and be happy. College-- and life-- is what you make of it. There can be diverse arrays of personalities even in outwardly homogenous environments if you just dig deeply enough. </p>
<p>((For the sake of full disclosure, I am not yet in college.))</p>
<p>Leshachikha: Very well said.</p>
<p>Fratastic: Ok since I may not have been clear about why I think you should say where you go.</p>
<p>You are ranting that prospectives aren't told the "truth" about top colleges and yet you won't name your idealized top college because... that will be too much like revealing this truth which you wish you were told? I'm confused. I really wish I had discovered CC and Princeton Review before I applied to SBU, the information I get now about SBU and other schools is so spot on and helpful.</p>
<p>I feel your frustration about groups of people but why does it have to be one extreme or the other...DnD or people just like you?</p>
<p>Btw I hardly thought you went to Rice, I actually laughed a little when I read that.</p>
<p>Good luck meeting different types of people. A study abroad program may be a good thing.</p>
<p>Here are some schools I was strongly considering: Amherst, Cornell, Dartmouth, Davidson, Duke, Hahvahd, Lehigh, Princeton, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington and Lee, William and Mary, Williams.</p>
<p>I love all of those schools. I do not think the one which I decided to attend is unique in regard to my comments.</p>
<p>As for the (non-ethnic) diversity thing: Think about all of the socioeconomic recruiting schools are doing (college is free if income under 60K!). Do you think the poor kids come to the school to major in Afro-Judaic Women's Studies? The financial aid kids are all here to major in something profitable and move up on the socioeconomic ladder.</p>
<p>Fratastic, I have learned many years ago, and I am sure you will learn as well that, "we are masters of our fate and captain of our souls."</p>
<p>Leshachikha hit the nail on the head. If you want to be an investment banker or lawyer, go ahead. if you want to hang out with solely asian types or belong to the a fraternity of solely like minded folks as yourself, you will.</p>
<p>If, however, you seek out differences, you will find them.</p>
<p>I find it amazing that you really think that people who attend top schools are solely into the major for the money. Yes, they do have to pay off the large debts or tuition advances at these top schools,which might be one reason to attend a cheaper, state university. However, not everyone has the pecuniary motivations that you do. </p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that philosophy majors, english majors and those that major in archeology, among other majors, are studying these subject for the future monetary reward. LOL</p>
<p>My daughter was a top student studying design. She specifically picked an honors floor at her dorm that does NOT have a lot of design kids. She chose to have more diversity in her life. She also participates in lots of extracurricular activities such as marching band, which allows her to meet many other types of kids as well and to further her musical interests.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Admittedly, you will get more diversity at a state university than that of a private school However, I am 100% sure that there are enough varieties of kids and variety of kids with differing goals, aspirations, and interests to satisfy any social or intellectual need that you have.</p>
<p>One final point, I am a tax lawyer and CPA by training. I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet many types of people,both rich and not so rich. Would it surprise you to note that most of the rich people that I have met did NOT attend top schools? Many of those who attended top schools went on to graduate schools, do research, which usually isn't very rewarding, and attained positions that weren't that lucrative such as teaching, research etc. Thus, when you say that most of the people you meet are very like minded as you and are very "money" motivated, somehow this much change since real life doesn't mirror your findings. </p>
<p>If you think that I don't know what I am speaking about, just do some research about how many students in your school go on to graduate school other than for law or medicine. I would bet and even give you odds that it is a fairly large percentage.</p>
<p>Bottom line: I don't buy much of what you said, and I am not sure that in your "heart of hearts" you do either. If you are really finding the situation that you stated, I would suggest that this is of your making! If you seek out others who are stiving for different goals than yourself, you will find them</p>
<p>Fratastic, I must be tired, When I said,"Thus, when you say that most of the people you meet are very like minded as you and are very "money" motivated, somehow this much change since real life doesn't mirror your findings. "</p>
<p>I should have said,"Thus, when you say that most of the people you meet are very like minded as you and are very "money" motivated, somehow this must change at some point in their lives since real life doesn't mirror your findings.</p>
<p>Also, I should have said at the end of my post,"If you seek out others who are striving for different goals than yourself, you will find them"</p>
<p>Sorry for the typos.</p>
<p>way to burst my bubble. cheers.</p>
<p>I don't find your post to shine light on any kind of new cultural phenomenon of shocking relevance to this generation of high achievers. Honestly, in my own limited experience, I've found that in highschool, in college, in the workplace, overseas...people are the same. A lot of people are *******s. A lot of people only care about their next paycheck. Then again, a lot of people don't. I never got to know a lot of fake people, materialistic people. I really don't think it's by virtue of where I live or where I go to school. Honestly, I think it's because, as is human nature, I do stick to my own kind. And by "my own kid", I don't mean to the Asian Club, or the African American Awareness Club. I mean I choose to associate with people I respect. And I've found I could find those kinds of people in any environment.</p>
<p>Sounds like you're sticking to "your kind". Maybe your "insightful" remarks about college culture are more about finding out who you really are deep down. As long as it's ok with you to surround yourself with losers, you will...and you're one of them. You live in a deplorable world because you've chosen to live there.</p>
<p>it's what you make of it... if you choose to hang out with your frat brothers all the time, then that's what college will be to you. I doubt much intellectual conversation occurs at the nightly frat parties, so maybe that's why you don't find it.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that people will still be friends and hang out with people like them. People like to be around people like themselves. That's how people work. Intelligence might be taken out of the equation since everyone at top schools is smart, but then it just moves onto the next thing in the list of "qualities that I have that I look for in other people." You obviously can't hang out with everyone at college.</p>
<p>"Sounds like you're sticking to "your kind". Maybe your "insightful" remarks about college culture are more about finding out who you really are deep down. As long as it's ok with you to surround yourself with losers, you will...and you're one of them. You live in a deplorable world because you've chosen to live there."</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>I have a cousin who went to a Seven Sisters school, majored in Interpretive Dance, or some waste major like that, and now she works at Starbucks, because that is the best job with health insurance she could find.</p>
<p>Dubbing "my kind" as "losers" is interesting. I understand that you and I have different mentalities.</p>
<p>I find the comments from kids in high school to be amusing. From the college students, I can understand the viewpoints. I just am a social person. Apparently one cannot be both social and intellectual. </p>
<p>Whatever... I'd rather shotgun beers in the fraternity basement with other future leaders, than place a shotgun to my head (Socrates, Szasz, Schopenhauer, etc.).</p>
<p>To each his own, I guess.</p>
<p>See, Fratastic, there is a curious dichotomy in what you're saying. There's a thread of "I'm happy being the materialistic kid with the high GPA who's going get a corporate job with a lucrative salary," but your first post especially had some moments of seeming disillusionment with that attitude and a desire to find some of that intellectualism you thought would be at college. So which is really your attitude? I'm a bit unsure whether this is a cynical rant against materialism or a cynical rant for it. It seems more the latter, but the former definitely pokes through in some areas.</p>
<p>If the former is indeed true, what merely can be said is that the greediness is not inevitable. You yourself have a cousin who evidently was not motivated by greed. She, if nothing else, should be proof that genuinely intellectual people exist in colleges. It's just a matter of the company you attract, the social scene you frequent, and your specific college community. You chose the route, both institution-wise and socially, that would necessarily be swarming with other ladder-climbers. If you're dissatisfied with that, you can change it. Change your attitudes, your friends, and your major.</p>
<p>But if you are indeed not dissatisfied and a materialism apologist, then be content with that, but do not present it like that is the overwhelming, inescapable atmosphere at every college is this country. Because you cannot possibly know that. Likely, you do not even know that it is inescapable at your own school because it seems you have not tried to escape it. And there are plenty of colleges that offer very different experiences than the typical Ivies and Northeastern LACs that CC students are so devoted to. You cannot say what the environment is like at each of them. You can only speak of your own experience at your own college in your own social circle.</p>
<p>There is something to be said for giving a wake-up call to idealistic high-schoolers who believe they will suddenly be immersed in this whirlwhind of creativity and honest devotion to learning for its own sake once they arrive on campus. But to say that the "investment banking" attitude is the only one to be found is simply not true. Your own cousin seems proof of that.</p>
<p>Thanks for the social criticism. I've been dying to say this since I was young but never found the words to describe it as clearly as you have.</p>
<p>I go to the Ivy-equivalent of private high school, and I get the same feel. People don't want to learn, but instead want to spur their own advancement in the money game. I have mixed feelings about this; I would love to get good grades, but at the same time I'm not going to take the hardest classes simply to gain knowledge. While I might be truly interested in a class, I won't take it without weighing in my grade factor.</p>
<p>It's really similar to the idea of chivalry. Knights had to follow virtuosity even if it meant losing your life for a meneal reason (Gawain and the Green Knight depicts this well). The truly great knights were the ones whom strove to be virtuosos yet took into account their own human instincts.</p>
<p>In cupertino, ca? </p>
<p>Yes, I go to Monta Vista HS...PLEASE HELP!!!</p>
<p>Brosfam:</p>
<p>While that attitude is true of lots of people, especially in Ivies, Northeastern LACs, and elite prep schools, it is not necessarily true of everyone. I know a fair number of people who take classes because they want to and because they are interested in learning. I mean, I take classes like AP Physics that I know are going to be ridiculously unfun for me because I feel like it's information I should know to be an educated person. That's not to say I'm a saint about grade weighting concerns-- while money doesn't really concern me, academic prestige has entered unduly into my considerations at times.</p>
<p>I don't see how allowing oneself to be materialistic or GPA-conscious or money-driven is some virtue (as your knight metaphor seems to suggest) if that's not what you want to be. I don't want to be like that. Acknowledging my natural greed and self-interest is necessary, of course, but that doesn't mean I have to bow to those characteristics, especially when I know that in the end, I will be much more fulfilled with a low-paying nonprofit job than the corner office in a morally ambiguous corporation. </p>
<p>((Sorry for my abundance of posts today...))</p>
<p>Congrats OP, you spent four years of your life to find that people have an excessive desire to acquire or possess more wealth than the Joneses'! </p>
<p>To introduce one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that Greed -- for lack of a better word -- is GOOD. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Greed is not bound by race, creed, or culture.</p>
<p>However, you're not including the human aspect of superiority. Not everyone is going to follow the same strategy as you, and those who don't, sadly, will accumulate the most wealth. There's a level of guilt that every human being has in his nature that puts doing things because you love them on a much lower self-worth than doing things for your own advancement. It's really just our competitive nature that forces us to strive for excellence in order to get that new BMW.</p>
<p>And if, as a country, we were to switch over to utilitarianism, that competitiveness would leak into other factors of daily life and we as a people would be robbed of most of that which makes every person unique. I honestly don't think there's any real solution to this problem.</p>
<p>brosfam - the only reason anyone goes to private school is to get the leg up on making more money one day. The amount of social networking people can do through their HIGH SCHOOLS is ridiculous.</p>