<p>^Sorry to disappoint, D’s UG anatomy did NOT include cadaver lab. She was not Bio major, she was Zoology major, so UG’s did animal dissections, not cadavers. She mentioned that it was a bit more confusing, since there are various animals with very different anatomy. It does not matter, UG Anatomy and Biochem are helping her now.</p>
<p>pccool, I think you’re right that working with cadavers as an undergrad would probably be the most helpful way to prepare for M1 anatomy, perhaps because you’re building technical proficiency.</p>
<p>But do you really need to build technical proficiency? Hard to say. I can’t imagine subjecting myself to an additional semester of the smell of formalin and cadavers in order to prepare myself for smelling it the following year–that seems a little crazy to me. As for the tools, no joke your best tools are your fingers and hands–you already know how to use those. Other than that, scalpels, forceps, scissors, and probes take a little getting used to–then again, it’s typically not a huge catastrophe if you’re not very technically precise because you’re working with cadavers, they tend to have symmetrical structures, and there will be numerous other cadavers to study from if you accidentally destroy a structure. But in the end, I can maybe see the argument of building technical proficiency for medical school by taking anatomy lab as an undergrad (although this is a moot point–your school doesn’t have cadavers!). </p>
<p>Learning structures seems to be marginally beneficial because then you wouldn’t have to spend as much time memorizing structures down the road. But how useful that straight memorization would be totally depends on your program. My program, for example, focuses less on “What is this structure? Median nerve.” and more on questions like “If you see a patient who has some numbness in the medial dorsal aspect of the hand, has weakened grip and supination of the forearm, and demonstrates that there’s only one comfortable position in which to sleep, which nerve do you suspect might have been damaged by compartment syndrome resulting from a previous MVA? Median nerve.” Whereas other schools (like my friend’s in Chicago, for example) focus more on rote memorization of structure, blood supply, innervation, function, etc. I get the impression UG anatomy would be more helpful in schools like my friend’s, if that makes sense.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m just one data point. But it doesn’t sound like you can go wrong with either decision. My vote’s still to skip anatomy–after all, you’ll have PLENTY of time to focus on anatomy next year, and there are few things more luxurious than a really easy senior spring semester. (I should know, only had class Tues/Thurs!)</p>
<p>I would like to dispel the myth medical school is “hard”. It is ALOT of work but the majority of the concepts are not hard to grasp (renal system the exception for me). I felt obtaining a BS in Chemistry from a top 20 undergraduate school was much more intellectually challenging and intellectually demanding than obtaining an MD from a top 30 medical school where I was AOA. The key to medical school is perseverance and persistence coupled with good old fashioned hard work. However, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. Residency with 100 hour work weeks for five years…no thank you.</p>
<p>"I would like to dispel the myth medical school is “hard”. "</p>
<p>-it is NOT a myth by far. It is reality for many. The fact that it is so easy for you does not make it easy for others. Extremely hard and there is no way to describe it otherwise. It is coming from my D. who has never had a single “B” in her life, which means that she is used to working hard. She also was keeping herself very very busy both in k -12 and in UG - according to pre-med advisor, who simply did not see how she managed her academics as well as she did. Based on D’s background, I tend to trust my D’s opinion that Med. School is insanely hard. Her classmates who came primarily from Ivy’s and elite UG’s thinks the same.
I am happy to hear that some are having easy time, congrats!</p>
<p>Strong advice - make sure that your Med. Schools did not add Anatomy as requirement if you decided to skip it. Better safe than sorry. As I have mentined, D. took both Anatomy and Biochem because one of her schools added them. But now she appreciate the fact that she did. Again, as Kristin pointed, it apparently depends on Med. School program and requirments.</p>
<p>Maybe I am misunderstanding emorydeac, but I think I have to agree with him and in contrast to MiamiDAP.</p>
<p>Medical school is very, very difficult. It is a lot of work in a short period of time, but what I took emory to be saying is that the complexity of the material is not higher than undergrad, and that, presumably, at a slower pace, more people would in general find it easier. That is why he said it is not hard but instead is a lot of work. I agree. </p>
<p>Medicine is not a field where you sit in class and go “I have no idea what’s going on.” It’s a field where you sit in class and go “holy _____, I can’t believe how much info was presented to me in the last hour.” There are plenty of people who can’t handle medical school who could memorize the side effects of a drug, or when to use it, how it’s removed from the body, or how it works. What separates medical school success stories from failures is keeping all of that info straight for 100-200 different drugs that were presented to you over 8 hours of class in 2 weeks while at the same time keeping up with your other courses. It’s not that difficult to understand what diseases give you symptom A. What’s hard is remembering what diseases give you symptom A but not B, and whether symptom C is at all relevant to the disease giving you A.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between being able to understand the concept of medicine and being able to remember all of the components involved in its practice.</p>
<p>I’m with iwannabebrown on this one too. I think med school is quite difficult, but it’s not the complexity of the material that’s so hard–it’s the sheer volume of it!</p>
<p>Sure, biochem is tough. And sure, physiology is tough. But really, the med school equivalents of biochem and physiology aren’t ridiculously more difficult than undergrad. The trick is figuring out what to study and what not to, which lectures to attend and which to skip, etc–really, it’s all about time management and spectacular study skills, especially because of commitments ranging from academic to clinical to personal (and more). </p>
<p>That’s not to say “anyone could do it.” I think there’s such a thing has having a knack for this stuff, of concepts seeming intuitive, and having the drive and passion to get through all of it. </p>
<p>But to say it’s considerably more conceptually difficult than undergrad is, as far as I can tell, making med school sound way tougher than it really is.</p>
<p>“Medical school is very, very difficult. It is a lot of work in a short period of time, but what I took emory to be saying is that the complexity of the material is not higher than undergrad, and that, presumably, at a slower pace, more people would in general find it easier.”
-I personally have no idea, never been to medical school. According to my MS1 D. it is not true. It is much more difficult than UG. It appears not to be the case for others. Good for them that they have easy time.<br>
In terms of Biochem, it seems that whenever material is connected to Biochem, it is easier for my D. at both UG (Biochem was ridiculosly easy there and she thought that she was wasting her time in the class) and Med. School. At least, she has mentioned that while it is still for sure much harder than UG, her current block is somewhat easier than her previous block. The reason is that there is a lot of Biochem in current block. D. did not mention though that anybody at her school are having easier time than they had in UG. Again, if you talk about conceptual difficulties, conceptual aspect and subjects connected to math (chemistry in particular) are much easier for my D. than memorization. But she knows that she needs to spend more time on more challenging for her material and she does. As an example, she had to spend about 30 hrs for each Orgo exam in UG, while she did not have to review Gen. Chem. material at all for MCAT. So, here are personal preferences.
I do not know anything else, except that it sounds like difficulty level depneds on particular Med. School, personal preferences and ability.</p>
<p>“According to my MS1 D. it is not true. It is much more difficult than UG.I do not know anything else, except that it sounds like difficulty level depneds on particular Med. School, personal preferences and ability.”</p>
<p>I also think it depends upon the particular undergraduate school the medical student attended. Otherwise, I agree interest in the material and ability determine the difficulty of medical school. However, the volume of material is incredible. On orientation day, the president of the student body addressed all MS1’s. He said going to medical school was like trying to get a drink of water from Niagara Falls with a test tube. First year often felt this way to me, but it was the sheer volume of material I was expected to learn which was difficult, not the complexity of the material. P Chem and Quantum Mechanics were much more difficult on a conceptual level than anything ANY medical school offers.</p>
<p>
Some SDNers sometimes would express some negative opinions toward the learning style at medical school. They use words like “binge and puke” before and after a test. Some say they make the medical school students (preclinical years) learn the “science” in a bad way. Maybe it is because, there is the sheer amount of information and there is really no way for most people to learn it “properly”. Maybe it is because the way these students learned science is in a very different way while they were science majors in college. (So, maybe not being a science major but being a good learner might be even better.) Maybe they are really not learning the science at all (i.e., learn whatever accumulated knowledge/facts required for a particular trade) if it is viewed from the point of the view of those high power professors at elite colleges who really do science in the academic environment. It appears to me that for many medical school students who suffer a lot in their first two years, they may continue to become successful MS3/MS4/residents/doctors, regardless of whether they do wellor not during their first two preclinical years. (That is, it really does not matter much for the first two years unless you are gunning for some lucrative (moneyed or “life-style”) specialties later on.)</p>
<p>A lot of educated guess on my part.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And also the student. A neighbor, who was all-everything at Caltech, is finding a top med a lot more work, but not as difficult as undergrad.</p>
<p>I am going to agree with Emorydeac. Most of the information in medical school is not difficult and while there is a lot of information to cover it is quite manageable if you do the work. It is certainly not difficult to pass all your courses. Doing really well on the other hand is hard. I attended a top ten medical school at a time when we were graded and it was competitive although collegial. I enjoyed medical school more than my internship, residency or fellowship and it was certainly less stressful than being out in practice.</p>
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</p>
<p>The above is the best advice. I have been on many adcoms and agree UNLESS:</p>
<ol>
<li> If you are a biochemistry major (or even bio or chem), then taking biochemistry makes sense.<br></li>
<li> Taking biochemistry in college will make your first year medical school year much easier (you will still have to take it)</li>
<li> Ad coms like well rounded students MUCH better than those who “try to get in”</li>
<li> It will be the last time of your life to take Russian lit</li>
</ol>
<p>There are many who are well rounded and “try to get in” at the same time. Neither Biochem nor Anatomy prevented my D. from having Music minor, travel abroad, improve her foreign language tremendously, be on board of her sorority and going to National, having the best job on campus, volunteer in very unusual for pre-med activity that has been discussed at her interviews much more that her Med. Research and whatever else, including great relaxing weekends, no summer classes and having tons of other fun. She had not only Biochem and Anatomy but very many other higher level Bio and Neuroscience classes. As far as Russian lit, you do not need to take a class, you can do it yourself, before, during and after UG, as long as you have burning desire to do so, if not, do not even attempt.
However, there is no quarantee that if you take many Bio classes, you will do better in Med. School. Med. School is just so much more material that there is no comparison. On the other hand some of them can make your life a bit easier and your MCAT score a bit higher (but this is just a speculation based on my D. experience, I have never been connected to Med. School besides thru her)</p>
<p>
DS once said that if he knew he would end up going into this (medicine) field early in his college career, he would spend more time on learning foreign language. He did took 2 semesters worth of foreign language in college, which is not enough in his standard. I believed he thought he should have taken it every semester like he did in high school.</p>
<p>It is easier said than done though, as it appears many language classes start at 8:00 am and, as far as I know, he was not an early riser (having too much fun in club acitivities in the evening? Or, many college age kids just do not go to bed early. Some parents even “complained” here that they were not able to get their child’s attention by phone before mid-night, and at that time, parents had to go to bed already. Parents are generally not as energetic as a 18 to 21-year-old in those hours.)</p>
<p>^D. took only one semester. she was able to speak what looked to us as very fluently on our last trip to Mexico. She was conversing with somebody who did not know English at all. D. said that since it was 2 years after she took college Spanish, she actually was not as good as right after class for the lack of any practice. So, I kind of disagree that number of semesters matter. Your S., probably is better than he thinks D. is currently taking special Spanish class (not part of ner Med. School) for future MD’s. Languages are easy for my D. (3 foreign languages), just like math. She does not need to work hard in these classes, not like she does now at Med. School.
I do not understand why people keep saying that you have to spend a lot of time studying, but it is not difficult at Med. School. Spending a lot of time is what is difficult. What else?</p>
<p>take it if u want to raise ur gpa if ur gpa it’s fine than don’t bother taking it</p>
<p>Miami,</p>
<p>Many other sciences or subjects are conceptually difficult in the sense that you sit there and you don’t know what you’re doing. You hear the professor say something and you don’t understand what it was. You do 50 practice problems but still don’t understand how to do it without looking at the book. I don’t think I could give you an advanced mathematical proof problem and with zero instruction you would figure out how to do it (and neither would I for that matter) I do think I could give you the list of drugs I need to know for pharm, and without any instruction, you could memorize the info and regurgitate it on a multiple choice test. Maybe you can’t do it as quickly as I can while keeping up with other material, but you would certainly have a better shot of outperforming me on my pharm exam than outperforming a math major on some high level math stuff.</p>
<p>^^curious, do you guys focus on clinical correlations to pharm stuff? </p>
<p>So let’s say you were being tested on…say, cancer therapy. Would your questions be aimed more at the pharmacology–imatinib mesylate is an antineoplastic agent that is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor with minimal systemic side effects, available orally, and typically reaches both cytologic and hematologic cures after a few cycles–or more at the clinical correlations–that is, recognizing a patient in his 30s who presents feeling well but with gouty arthritis and a CBC indicative of chronic phase CML, and then realizing that you could begin treatment with this TKI?</p>
<p>I imagine it would be much more conceptually straightforward to answer questions about the pharmacology as opposed to the application, and I’m just curious if your program focuses on one more than the other.</p>
<p>i_wanna…,
OK, now I got it. This conceptual not understanding is not a concern at all. Concern is spending tons of time studying. So, I guess, people have differnet definition of “difficult”. For us in our family, difficult means spending tons of time trying to memorize. Classes like math, chemistry, Biochem, music theory or other “conceptual” material are not a concern, they are much easier than others. From prospective of spending lots of time studying, Med. School material has been very very hard so far for my D. but she has mentioned that it is NOT harder for her than her classmates.</p>