<p>we get both types. Sometimes questions are flat out “Which of the following is not a side effect of x” and sometimes it’s “A patient comes complaining of X, with physical exam/laboratory findings of Y and Z with a past history of A, B, C, and D, which of the following drugs would you use (or sometimes, which would you NOT use)”</p>
<p>In my opinion, either way it’s memorization and word association and the key to success is figuring out how to make and remember those associations as quickly and easily as possible.</p>
<p>MiamiDad. You are way off if you think that someone will “have time” or be able to take “Russian Lit” after you start med school and until after you have finished your residency and fellowship. There is NO TIME.</p>
<p>Medical School classes are not “hard” as maybe physical chemistry is. It is mostly memorizing for the first couple of years. We now put some clinical work in the first two years to help. There is cognitive function to decide how the Kreb cycle from biochemistry relates to physiology and how insulin/sugar affect diabetes and then pathology. </p>
<p>The work comes in the clinical years and residency of staying awake and finding time to do things. The 80 hour week is still being debated as to helping or hurting and there is some talk of expanding the residencys (adding additional years) to make up for the decreased time. Already some surgical programs are requiring 6 instead of 5 years and hospitals are requiring several more years of a fellowship in order to get priviledges.</p>
<p>I was talking to my M3 daughter about this recently thinking that she would approve of the new work hours but her first comment was that for all it is painful, some specialities (surgery in particular) need the big hours and she wondered how many specialties were eventually going to extend training because of the new system.</p>
<p>“Medical School classes are not “hard” as maybe physical chemistry is. It is mostly memorizing for the first couple of years”</p>
<p>-Some people might have easy time with memorizations, others have much more difficult time with it than with physical chemistry. I consider academics being hard when it requires tons of time studying. Again, I am glad to hear that for some Med. School is a walk in a park, it is not the case for my D. and her clasmates. So, it is just fair that OP hear various opinions, not just the ones coming from exceptionally bright that might give incorrect impression based on experience of very few very brilliant medical students.</p>
<p>I know of none of our students who think it is “hard”. These are all top students who have been weeded out. Do some still “flunk” > yes. This is based on several medical schools and many years of being a professor.</p>
<p>It is mainly hard work and lots and lots of time to read and assimilate alot of new knowledge. There is alot of reading alot of “new things” and alot of simple memorization. But it is “not hard” (eg nuclear physics) - it is only lots of work. AND, this does not stop after medical school. In fact, there is more work every year afterwards. I often average less than 4 of sleep even now many years out. </p>
<p>Thirty years ago, the med school physiology, biochemistry, etc courses were “the same” as the graduate school courses in those areas. Now we have “spooned them down” to make them easier and more geared to medicine.
Any doctor will tell you that you do not learn medicine in medical school. You do during your residency and your “practice”. Medical school is where you learn a new language. You learn anatomy, biochemistry, pathology, etc. You learn the basics for your later education in medicine.</p>
<p>^Good for your students! However, your post is contradictory. You are saying “It is mainly hard work and lots and lots of time to read and assimilate alot of new knowledge.” right after you mentioned that it is not hard. We seem to be stating the same fact but reaching opposite conclusion.<br>
“It is mainly hard work and lots and lots of time to read and assimilate alot of new knowledge.” equals hard in my mind and in the minds of med. students at D’s school, much harder than any conceptual classes that they took in UG and definitely much harder than any memorization UG classes. To say that it is easy is to confuse people IMO. But to me it seems that we are putting different labels on the same facts, you just saying that it is so hard and later call it “easy”, this is the only difference I see in our opinions.</p>
<p>I am not sure what medical students you have talked to. All (with rare exception) of the hundreds I have dealt with think that it is “fun”, “exciting”, “new”, “lots of work” – but none of them have ever used the adjective “hard”. </p>
<p>Hard would be something that no matter how much time you spend, it still does not make sense. Easy is something that makes sense albeit taking time to learn. Thus, medical school is “easy” - much more so that UG (but also taking much more time)</p>
<p>To be truthful, it gets “easier” but more time is committed as they advance</p>
<p>P’Dad : Hard work is not “hard”. It’s just lot’s of work. </p>
<p>Miami : Hard work is hard to do. That’s why we call it hard work. </p>
<p>P’Dad’s definition of hard appears to be limited to conceptually difficult work that some students, no matter how much time and strategy they put into it, simply don’t have the ability to do or at least it’s very near the limit of their ability to do. Med school is not hard. </p>
<p>Miami’s definition is more akin to a marathon. It’s not that difficult to run a few steps , but 26+ miles? That’s hard for anybody. Med school is hard.</p>
<p>Miami, I believe PrincessDad is stating that the material taught in med school is not “hard” to learn as in difficult, complex or impossible to learn. Most people are able to memorize stuff, regurgitate it like a parrot, sometimes without having any idea of what they are saying. Anyone capable of doing that will have no problem with the first couple of years of med school. On the other hand, not everyone is able to successfully master Calculus III, Matrices, Physical Chemistry, Quantum Physics and the like. </p>
<p>The “difficulty” during the first two years of med school consists on the volumes of material that need to be memorized in a short period of time, the lack of time for much of a social life, the time that one needs to dedicate to study, the degree of anxiety that all this generates, etc. Some people have a very “hard” time with this and they have a lo of trouble adapting to it.</p>
<p>I have a classmate who is very concerned because she feels that she can’t memorize anything or that she forgets everything. Her background is engineering so she is not used to anything like what she is being exposed to. She is having a “hard” time, not because the material is “hard” but because it is “hard” for her to memorize so much stuff at the same time. :)</p>
<p>(It’s amazing this discussion has continued as long as it has!)</p>
<p>Med school is a lot of work. </p>
<p>Doing a lot of work is hard for some (most?) people. Other people don’t consider work to be hard unless it is conceptually challenging (nearly impossible?).</p>
<p>Regardless of which camp you agree with, I bet you’d agree that medical school is a helluva commitment of time and energy on the student’s part. (And I assume it is similarly arduous for faculty etc.)</p>
<p>I still stand with my original statement–save anatomy for med school! Take a different fun class instead. And if none of them seem worth it, take fewer hours altogether and have the luxury of sleeping in, hanging out with your friends, or taking a long weekend trip every now and again. Nothing wrong with that!</p>
<p>If you consider that only conceptual material could be called hard, then you are incorrect. there are many (including me) who are at great ease with conceptual stuff, but have to work extremely hard (not even possible for me at all, I never tried) to memorize. It is much easier at UG because there are at least some conceptual classes that give you a break (for my D. it was Gen. Chem. stats, Biochem, music theory, physics). At Med. School, there is none of them, everything is just “lots of work” as everybody here agree, including the ones who call “lots of work” easy. whenever it is lots of work, itis hard. Conceptual material is easier for those who were diligent doing their math homework in k - 12, it is plenty enough to understand all the conceptual classes at UG level. There is no unsolvable problems, they all could be solved if you apply correct math, which is NOT hard.</p>
<p>I’ll avoid the debate on the meaning of the word “hard.” </p>
<p>My son described the difference between undergrad and med school as follows: In undergrad he could do moderate amounts of work, but then really study hard before an exam. In med school, the volume is so huge, you must put in lots of time daily. You cannot fall behind. It’s the unrelenting quantity of information.</p>
<p>True, but isn’t this also true of any graduate/professional study?</p>
<p>Do students who are trained musicians have an advantage in MS? After all, we are pre-programmed for daily drills and massive amounts of quick memorization. If these are useful skills for MS, I would think it would make a difference.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it gives you an advantage per se but there seem to be many fine musicians in my D’s med school class. Isn’t there some adage about music, math and medicine?</p>
<p>Actually, having both a med student and PhD student, I would say the grad students seem to have a bit more control over their schedule, their daily life, the speed of their progress, etc. In my limited experiences, the med students are running on a treadmill with a speed set by others, trying to avoid doing a George Jetson. The grad students can set their own pace, which of course, risks taking much longer to complete their degrees.</p>
<p>Not even close. There are many law schools where students can easily work part-time and still ace their classes. (Yes, they may be lower-ranked law schools, but they are still accredited and have an ~80% bar pass rate.) Public Health grad schools are a cake-walk in comparison to med school. MBA programs have a lot of work, but the students tend to have a lot of fun, too, such as literary hour at the local watering hole on Thursdays.</p>
<p>I went to law school. (Of course, back then the laws were writ on papyrus… but) As I remember law school was a grind. Not grind as in “dull”. But “grind” as in being in a meat grinder. You went in an individual capable of free floating original thoughts and came out the other side…a lawyer. lol It was not an altogether pleasant experience :eek: but the camaraderie was great. Like I expect boot camp was to a draftee. Or maybe being a Moonie. Or somewhere in between. ;)</p>