<p>Anybody else's kids have major trouble with foreign profs/TA's? My son had two last semester that he truly could NOT understand. I'm frustrated that he didn't transfer out to another section of the course, but... he said he thought he'd get used to the accents. He ended up with two D's because of this.</p>
<p>Why isn't there some sort of requirement to be able to speak English understandably? After all, they are TEACHING, and should be able to COMMUNICATE their knowledge.</p>
<p>In the physical sciences and engineering, students are more likely to have foreign born prof and TA's and yes, many do have heavy accents. However this should rarely be a valid reason for doing poorly in a course. It is however an often used as a handy excuse.</p>
<p>Here are exerpts of a typical TA policy. "TA's are not and should not be held responsible for the intellectual or instructional content of a course." and "All international TA's who are involved with student contact must possess adequate English fluency for effective communication with students. TA's who are non-native speakers of English must be evaluated by the institute ESL specialist... ."</p>
<p>I have been a student or college academic for about 30 years and have never run across a prof, TA or colleague who was incomprehensible with respect to language skills. NEVER.</p>
<p>I do however have a humerous story. In my multivariable calculus course as an undergrad at OSU, the prof came into the class and exhibited a horrible stuttering problem. After the class I immediately went to the Department of Math office to see if a section change would be possible. About half the class was there when I arrived. We were all told a change would not be approved and to bear with the prof for a few days because the stuttering would get better. It did and he turned out to be quite a good prof.</p>
<p>Well, the profs' accents didn't affect my son's grades, happy to say. S just found it annoying. In retrospect he thinks the honors math sequence would have been better for him --he thinks maybe he could have gotten in if he had pushed/asked, but he didn't. </p>
<p>On another note, he told me that on his birthday he found out that he had a paper due in six hours. Just luck that he found out. He didn't know before that because he had "skipped too many classes." :( He got it done though. Just as well I didn't know what was going on at the time. (Could have started my rant--we're paying all that $$ for you to SKIP CLASSES!!!) Now that he is home, little by little, the info is trickling forth . . . Anyway, like I said, he made it through the first year, in pretty good shape, and for that I am grateful!</p>
<p>Figuring out how much one is able to cut corners, and when it is important to buckle down, and figuring out how to do things at the last minute effectively is much of what education is all about. And also something they will remember and make use of far more than any content they might have missed in those classes cut.</p>
<p>Tks mini. I so want to believe you! If that's true, then it would seem that my son is getting an excellent education! In high school S let things slide too far, but at least this year, in college, the work is meaningful enough for him to get it done, mostly, somehow . . . He started off fall semester with a C+ on his first physics test and said it was because he thought he didn't need to study. But he bounced back and did well. Lots of that type of thing for him this year, and I'm sure I don't know the half of it! The danger for him, I feel, was that he would let things slide too far, as he did in highschool. So far, that does not appear to be the case. </p>
<p>And then, there is his older brother, who has the same tendencies to let things go, but not the same ability to recover. But, he too, seems to be doing better, after some rocky times. He is too stubborn to quit, so continues to slog along and will be going to his sixth year of college next year (thankfully the first two years were at community college, at $1,000/year, what a bargain here in California). His grades were good enough this semester (finally!) that I believe he will graduate eventually! It has taken him some time, but I believe he is finally learning what he has to do to get it done. Oh, I hope. . . Gosh I've heard so many stories from men my age that went through things similar to my older S, and they turned out fine. Those stories keep me going, believe me!</p>
<p>And oh yes, older S has been working the past few days--unloading furniture. Not the greatest job in the world. But hey, he's doing something! Now, just need to find something to occupy younger S for the summer . . .</p>
<p>"I have been a student or college academic for about 30 years and have never run across a prof, TA or colleague who was incomprehensible with respect to language skills. NEVER."</p>
<p>I agree that it's my son's fault for not pulling off a good grade in spite of any perceived language issues. Immaturity on his part, I'm sure. In perspective, though, I have always been able to understand even the thickest accents in general conversations. But, when you're being taught highly technical courses with unfamiliar terminology, it is a strain. It's just up to the student to find a strategy that works in such circumstances. That's where my son fell flat, and hopefully he won't make the same mistake next semester.</p>
<p>mstee -- I'm sure you know about craigslist for job hunting. If you search for "summer" or "seasonal" there is still stuff popping up every day.
Our son knows how we'll react to paying all that money for him to skip classes. That doesn't mean he doesn't skip them, just that he doesn't tell us. When an economics grade slipped a little lower than intended, he did confess at dinner that he could have pulled it higher if he'd done all the reading. We said simultaneously: "Why didn't you do all the reading???" Haven't heard much about his classes since then for some reason.</p>
<p>I guess TA's won't make or break a course, but I have encountered some math and econ teachers with very heavy accents, and that certainly makes acquiring new information more difficult. One math prof had such limited use of the English language that he could apparently only explain things one way. If you asked for a clarification, too bad for you, because you already heard it. OTOH, maybe he was just a poor teacher!</p>
<p>Re. the accents of foreign-born profs and TA's, we should remember that communication is a two-way street. The "foreign accent" is just as much in the ear of the listener as it is in the mouth of the speaker. Because of globalization, we are all obliged to become more comfortable with pronunciation patterns that sound different from our own. We no longer have the luxury of assuming that the way we speak English is the right way, or the best way, or the only way to speak it.<br>
From an economic point of view, if we ever come to the stage when international students do NOT want to come to the US for graduate study, then we will REALLY have cause to worry about our lifestyles. By that time, they will have left us all behind, and we will have much more serious complaints than the pronunciation of some instructors.</p>
<p>Even within the US, different accents are very interesting - I'm a native-born "Yankee", but moved south about 10 years ago. A shoe store clerk and I had a funny go-around last month. I asked for a particular shoe in tan, and she kept bringing me size 10. I didn't get it, until she said her pronounciation of "10" - sounds just like "tan"! We giggled for quite a while about that - Fortunately, most people are very accepting of the differences.</p>
<p>Not that it is any fun to suffer through lectures you can't understand... But, there are also American-born professors who mumble, whisper, stand in front of their own writing on the board, erase things before anyone can catch up, or are just plain inarticulate in their native language. But there are also: office hours, TAs (sometimes more than one), textbooks, study centers, and (in math and science particularly) help rooms staffed at regular hours. Sometimes it's just hard to get students to use them.</p>
<p>I totally agree - If I have any advice for upcoming freshman, it is to take advantage of the resources offered to them. TA's, professor's office hours, on-campus tutors (upper classmen), etc. I think my son has learned (hopefully) to be more resourceful, rather than glowering about unintelligible professors. I, too, remember a particular professor that continually lectured directly into the blackboard as he wrote - As you said, blocked the notes and nobody could hear him either!</p>
<p>.. pretty good. Always a super math student, nevertheless got her butt kicked a bit in an upper level math course. That's a new experience for her. Same thing happened to her dad, though, all those years ago...</p>
<p>Other than that, which I consider a growth experience itself, things went well. Liked her classes, profs, the other kids. Had the opportunity to keep up with her instrument playing, by taking courses through the conservatory. This was an "extra" for her; anyplace else and she probably would have just stopped, which would have been kind of a shame after playing all these years. Learning a complicated foreign language. Auditing classes in subjects that interest her.</p>
<p>I visited for the first time some months ago and I thought the place was great. Really attractive campus.</p>
<p>This is at Oberlin, by the way.</p>
<p>Moneydad, when we visited I though the Oberlin campus was rather shabby and unattractife in places. But who cares!!! Our visit was wonderful and the college has so much to offer its students! With the visit it immediately rose to the very top of our sons list. The atmosphere was unlike any other college we visited. The people and students we met were so interesting, very free spirited. And winter term intrgued him. FYI, Oberlin far out produces any other LAC's in the number of undergrads going on to earn PhD's by a rather wide margin. And with its conservatory, it is safe to say that there is no other college remotely like Oberlin.</p>
<p>Alas the merit aid offer was minimal which made the decision to turn down Oberlin's admission offer somewhat easier.</p>
<p>I went in the Fall, when all the leaves were turning colors. I'm sure this was an influence in how I perceived it. Maybe it is shabby and unattractive in places my kid didn't take me to.</p>
<p>"Oberlin far out produces any other LAC's in the number of undergrads going on to earn PhD's by a rather wide margin. And with its conservatory, it is safe to say that there is no other college remotely like Oberlin."</p>
<p>Actually, it is true - but with a big caveat. Much of the advance degree productivity is in music.</p>
<p>And Bard's new conservatory, given its faculty roster, is easily the equivalent of Oberlin's, though it will take a decade to show up in their graduates.</p>
<p>Not to take away from a great, GREAT school, though. (I sometimes wish I'd gone there.)</p>
<p>It's also the largest school that is considered an LAC with a larger undergrad enrollment than Rice University. 3100 counting the conservatory, 2600 without.</p>
<p>Even adjusted for the size of the enrollment, Oberlin still produces a very high rate of PhDs -- comfortably in the top 10 of all colleges and universities.</p>
<p>The "music and arts" category of the PhD database doesn't appear to be terribly dominate at Oberlin -- 189 of their 1107 PhDs over the most recent 10 year period. They produce a lot of PhDs across a broad range of subjects.</p>
<p>I guess I will join this thread because I remember many of the parents from last year when we took are sons and daughters to their various schools. It has been some time since I even visited the forum. Let me begin by saying I can't comment about the Freshman year because as my daughter has reminded me many times, "there are no freshmen at Wellesley, only first years!" So this is a recap of her FIRST YEAR.
I will have to repeat what has been said by many others. It has been an awesome year.
We were worried about her being 900 miles away in Boston, but this was not a problem. She had a great year academically in spite of the new grading policy that Wellesley put in place this fall to lower overall class averages.
We was accepted in the Wellesley College dancers in the fall which allowed her to continue her passion for ballet and other forms of dance.
She had a super roommate from California. They will be rooming together again in the fall and I suspect all four years, because they have become close friends. She also made a wonderful group of other friends in her dorm and in the society (Phi Sigma) into which she was initiated this spring.
She had an active dating life with guys from other schools....MIT, Harvard, Babson, etc.
She has grown and matured a lot in a year.
This summer she was awarded an internship through Wellesley College which paid her to be working with a group called (IHN) Interfaith Hospitality Network that provides support and shelter for homeless families.
She has a pre-med concentration and will begin her "heavy" classes this fall.
All in all, we are very proud of her FIRST YEAR, and are even happier that she chose Wellesley. It was an answer to a prayer, and certainly the right choice for her.
P.S. And the Red Sox won too! Icing on the cake. We attended a game....what a blast!!!</p>