<p>Without delving into the broader "to Harkness or not to Harkness" argument, I would like to say that yes, it "[d]oes it help you learn to DISCUSS simple harmonic motion." Discussion helps because it develops facility with whatever subject is at hand. If you can only solve the problem or recite the equation, you'll survive. But if you can master it at the level where you can DISCUSS the concepts, relate them to broader principles, explore the limits of its application and its interrelationship with the rest of the world...that's helpful. It's probably more than helpful. But definitely helpful. </p>
<p>In fact, wouldn't it be a shame if someone can only solve problems and perform math operations and recite laws and principles? </p>
<p>I don't know, so I'm not saying, but I have to allow for the possibility that math and science might be strengths at Exeter at least in part because students discuss simple harmonic motion.</p>
<p>i personally love the fact that students discuss topics at exeter. that is one of the main reasons I chose exeter. I'm tired of my teacher telling us to memorize formulas and leaving it at that.</p>
<p>In regards to prepdad's last post, I would like to tastefully refute one of his points (I am NOT trying to pick a fight here, but going to Exeter with lots of financial aid next fall, I resent a bit of what he said).
Don't get me wrong, I found the entirety of your post very insightful and eye-opening, but when you stated that you found those who were attending the school on need-based aid to be more a-kin to "falling threw the cracks", I couldn't have disagreed more!! I would find that those who are more in need to actually work harder than your average teenage Joe-because it was such a wonderful thing for them to be handed such an opportunity in the first place, and they wouldn't want to do anything to lose it!
Anyway...those are just my two cents on the matter...</p>
<p>coke vs. pepsi? harvard vs. yale? shaq vs. lebron? </p>
<p>can anyone help me with these questions? to be honest, i see andover and exeter as similar in most regards. there are differences but really not worth arguing. either you like one or the other based on personal taste. coke vs. pepsi?</p>
<p>"There's nothing revolutionary about having a discussion-based classed and in that respect there's nothing exceptional about "Harkness" as a brand name. Take your education for what it is, but don't say it's something that it's not." -xGods_F
(I don't know how to do those cool quotation boxes)</p>
<p>I disagree; Edward Harkness's gift to the academy is outstanding and exceptional and does cater to its academic strength. His gift basically transformed the school and they even say Harkness "refounded" Exeter. It might not seem revolutionary to you because nowadays almost all the prep schools have discussion based English classes, but back then everything was lecture-based and his HUGE gift to the school changed that tradition into a new method of high school education.</p>
<p>Also, Exeter's Harkness method of teaching math is actually being taught in other school systems, so Harkness math is legit.</p>
<p>I do admit, though, that it usually doesn't work nearly as well for science courses.</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that no one learns best by memorizing, or just plowing through problems, but my point regarded the learning of simple harmonic motion through deriving the formulas, applying them, using them on sample problems, etc. The difference is between that and harping about everyone's feelings on the subject. The former is condusive to learning and non-exclusive to Harkness, and the latter is digressive, unnecessary, and unfortunate by-product of Harkness as it stands. Tuesdayair agrees with me when I purport that it doesn't work as well for science. </p>
<p>I have nothing but respect for Exeter's math system, but I don't think it's a function of Harkness, so much as it is a function of Zuming Feng's problem's based approach. The method is talked about in "Countdown" about the 2001 IMO, and did not become a part of Exeter until Feng's arrival. And if I understand correctly, students get up from the table to explain their different solutions, so you would actually need to leave the confines of the Harkness. Exeter math is spectacular, but it is not Harkness math, per se. </p>
<p>tuesdayair: I don't think I can quite believe that the Harkness method precipitated a shift in higher education towards discussion-based classes, but if you can prove that it did I would applaud the method for its positive influence alone. Even if so, however, that doesn't absolve it of its current problems nor does it justify Exeter's annoying insistence of shoving Harkness Harkness down the throat of every applicant.</p>
<p>I apologize about that Grejuni, but I was/am confused about xGods_F's comments so I felt I had to post something. and sorry but I need to clarify something again....</p>
<p>When I said Harkness doesn't really work for science, I didn't mean that it was because people "harp" on everyone's "feelings on the subject." I agree with xGods_F and I think that's just pointless, but science classes does not work like that AT ALL at Exeter (because we get reading assignments the night before on what we're going to go over the next day, we're not trying to figure out Darwin's theories or trying to discuss whether evolution is the correct theory. We discuss the logic/evidence of it to better understand Darwin could come to those conclusions). I said Harkness doesn't really work for science because I feel we don't use it. Around the Harkness table, students theoretically ask/answer each others questions instead of the teacher always dominating class, but often, like in my biology class, the teacher ends up being the center of the discussion because he just knows so much info that none of the students could ever know with just one reading assignment on it.</p>
<p>Anyways, it seems like xGods and I are talking about two different things. It seems XGods is talking about the Harkness method in comparison to discussion based classes and how there is no difference, whereas I talked in my previous post about Edward Harkness's influence and how it's reasonable that we take pride in his exceptional gift. Just to avoid further confusion, I wasn't trying to argue that the Harkness METHOD drove high school education in genenal toward discussion-based classes (i can see how I made it sound like that in my previous post and i apologize for that) but that E. Harkness made a huge contribution to the academy that changed it and therefore is exceptional.</p>
<p>and....I can see how Harkness appearing on every page of the Exeter website can be annoying =P. But I think the importance of E. Harkness to Exeter justifies it.</p>
<p>I think I repeated the same statement over and over again in this post (sorry) but I am in a hurry to start my history paper =). yay procrastination? </p>
<p>To answer Grejuni's question, the thing I like the best about my school is its social service organization (called ESSO). I hear Andover has a pretty great organization, too, and actually the two organizations are working together to host a service learning conference joining many other schools in the area together to learn from one another.</p>
<p>I'm sorry to "interrupt," but can we hear a bit more about Andover please? :) It's just that since I'm going there next year I want to learn more about it, and this discussion seems to be focusing solely on Exeter. Any input?</p>
<p>" Exeter is the same. It is a very complicated internal political situation at both schools, between administrators, faculty and the Board of Trustees. They are such elite institutions, it is as if they don't want to acknowledge that accepted students, no matter how intelectually qualified, are in need of day to day supervision and counseling, not to necessarily just stay out of academic trouble, but to get guidance in ways to maximize their high school experience and take advantage of the vast amount of opportunities these schools have to offer within the framework of their academic commitments. Kids are kids (14-18), no matter how smart they are and need the help. Remember, I'm not talking about needing help just to keep from flunking out amidst the rigorous academic program, I'm talking about MAXIMIZING their high school experience. Obviously the majority of students at these schools are not suffering academically, but with multitude of opportunities at their disposal, are they really being given the opportunity and guidance to take advantage of them to the greatest extent possible? The problem will become compounded even further as more and more students from lower economic backgrounds attend the schools through the need-blind admission process and increased financial aid. As we've all read, these schools and others are using their huge endowments to give more students from economically challenged families the opportunity to attend and create more diversity within the student body. That is a wonderful thing, which I am all for. However, without a significant broadening of the student support infrastructure, my concern is those kids (who have significantly more social issues to deal with when they get to school than most of the incoming students) as well as the other students will run the risk of being even more "lost in the trees". It seems like a simple issue to address as many other boarding schools have, but I've been told by people within these schools that in a certain sense, it's a political hot potato. "</p>
<p>My reply:</p>
<p>Spot on prepdad -- one of the best posts on this board.</p>
<p>I'm sure some students/parents would like to avoid 'sink-or-swim' schools and find schools that do a better job of providing guidance and helping students maximize their overall experience. Which boarding schools are known to be better at this?</p>
<p>considering they were started by father and son, i am assuming they are very similar with only minor differences. exeter even has two of the same mottos as andover, and then one of its own. i am going to exeter next year, so of course i like it better.</p>
<p>artsmart: let's get our history correct: Phillips Academy Andover was founded by Samuel Phillips, Jr. in 1778. Phillips Exeter Academy was founded by his uncle, Dr. John Phillips in 1781.</p>
<p>I was going cousins. Their rivalry has always been such, that seems a little bit jerkish if the nephew starts a school and then BAM, the uncle has to one up him.</p>
<p>With further research, I resign saying that Dr. John Phillips was a jerk, and a horrible uncle. BrooklynGuy, I stand corrected. <em>bows head.</em></p>
<p>i thought he started the school for a "friendly" rivalry. like army navy. or harvard yale. or red sox yankees. well, that last one isn't too friendly.</p>
<p>You completely gloss over Prepdad's assumption that the kids from lower socioeconomic situations will need more help academically. If acceptance to the schools is need blind, wouldn't these kids be on the same academic level as the more economically privileged students? I don't really understand the concern from an academic standpoint. His concerns on a social standpoint may have some validity, but still not much considering that most kids with social problems do not aspire to the high academics that would be required for admission to Exeter or Andover.</p>
<p>prpdd made a good point about getting guidance, not necessarily academic tutoring.</p>
<p>There are many arenas in which there is a cultural divide between (a) those who have the wisdom to understand how the "game" is played, how to set goals, which goals to set and how to achieve them, and (b) those who go with the established program and do what they're told to do.</p>
<p>I see it in athletics, the workplace and even when it comes to simple things such as dating. Some people just "know" how to work the system and maximize results. Others, regardless of their ability, don't seem to "get it" and they retard their potential for success.</p>
<p>If you're in a community or a family where boarding or college prep schools are familiar, you're likely to have been exposed to some of the ways that people make it work to their advantage. These people know how to impress the boss, choose the major that will get them where they want to go, sign up for the summer sports camps that will get them noticed by the "right" recruiting gurus, and so on and so on.</p>
<p>It's not a matter of whether some kids need academic tutoring...as much as I think prpdd is pointing out that there are kids with as much (perhaps more) ability than others who aren't getting what they should be getting out of the awesome school they're attending because there's no context or vision or whatever you want to call the thing that separates those who "get it" from those who don't.</p>
<p>The whole "life coaching" industry that has emerged over the past 10 years is, I think, the sort of thing that is missing. Having the tools and drive to get in to a "top" boarding school is one thing. Understanding how to maximize the experience...that's something that requires personal attention. There are plenty of middle-aged adults who still flounder about and need this kind of assistance. There are that many more kids who could profit it from it.</p>
<p>This sort of personal attention and assistance and mentoring from adults is something that -- one hopes -- wouldn't be perceived by school administrators as being "beneath" their students. It would be a mistake for a school to resist giving this sort of help and guidance to students on the grounds that it would be perceived by outsiders that their students have some sort of weakness or that they lack the independence and maturity that the school promotes.</p>
<p>I guess I just don't get it. I'm not really following what you're saying. I'm in one of those communities where no one has ever heard of boarding school so I guess I haven't been exposed to what you are talking about. Do you think this will affect my child at Exeter?</p>