<p>Fair enough, poetgrl. What I am saying is that the “life lesson” might be the importance of putting college decisions in perspective. This is actually as big a lesson, if not bigger, for parents as for kids. I intended the “hill of beans” reference to make the point that, as I suggested earlier in this thread, if you can walk 50 feet and find a problem bigger than your kid’s college disappointment, that’s reason enough to recalibrate your reaction to that disappointment. We, as parents, should be teaching our kids who determines their happiness and what they ultimately achieve in life. (Hint: It’s not any college’s adcom! ;))</p>
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<p>I think raising their selectivity rating also is a motivation behind mass mailing promotional brochures…</p>
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<p>Given that I have one who chose a school nobody ever even thinks of over a few schools people like to talk about endlessly, I think my kids learned that lesson.</p>
<p>However, one of the ways they learned that lesson was that I never once denigrated their feelings of disappointment when they happened. “If you are never disappointed, you never tried hard enough,” imo.</p>
<p>However, when a kid has poured their entire life into academics, it’s mighty rough the day they realize they aren’t as stand-out amazing as they thought they were and as everyone around them believed them to be. It deserves some space.</p>
<p>I have rarely heard of a kid who wasn’t happy with their school by thanksgiving. But, really, as parents, walking them through the disappointment is as valuable, if not more so, than acting as if they are being “ridiculous,” which, in that moment, they are not. </p>
<p>As for the top schools being application predators, I disagree. The are completely predatory in getting every single app they possibly can to raise their ranking. And, frankly, I find that exceedingly unethical for an alleged non-profit, tax-exempt organization.</p>
<p>I’m not personally familiar with Fairfax County nor with Short Hills. Are there families there who qualify for free or reduced lunches, so that Harvard might find its “diamonds in the rough” there? If not, can’t Harvard figure out the zip codes for Fairfax County and Short Hills, to avoid just sending advertising hype to people who have heard of the school?</p>
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<p>ROFL! Do you really not get that in the vast majority of schools in this country, the GC is the person who simply ensures that the transcripts get sent out on time, while they aren’t dealing with the truants or the kid whose mother just died or the kid who needs help with a substance abuse problem? The % of hs in which a GC serves as a true resource is vanishingly small.</p>
<p>The amount of “the rest of the country is just like my suburban upper middle class existence, where everyone is dying to get kids into Ivies” on this board is amazing!</p>
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<p>Except that it only counts for 1.5% in the USNWR ranking, so that would be a rather silly way to try to increase the ranking. Nice try, but these schools really do want to get the kids from East Bumble who might not have heard of their school.</p>
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<p>I find this odd. It seems no different from the Mercedes dealer targeting certain zip codes and hoping that some of those people come in the showroom to test drive the car. I see absolutely no distinction between the direct mail that manufacturers, restaurants, etc. do and what colleges do. The very nature of direct marketing simply means a lot of it gets wasted. Big deal. As someone who has been involved with direct mail campaigns in a work context, what the colleges do isn’t even all that notable. It’s just the basics.</p>
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<p>Why so amazing. For three years, it’s been “ah-ma-zing.”</p>
<p>Your agenda becomes boring.</p>
<p>I don’t quite get this thread. I understand being disappointed by admission results, but angry? At whom? Pizzagirl is right, the guidance counselor at our school has way too much to do than give out unsolicited advice. D and S gave their GC a list and he gave feedback. He certainly isn’t going to meet with each kid and make a list of schools for them. </p>
<p>Why shouldn’t Harvard advertise to all of those that have the top 5% of scores? D got the glossy brochure and threw it in the trash. She was Harvard material (without assuming she would have been accepted). S did not get the glossy brochure and wasn’t Harvard material. Shouldn’t Harvard gather as many applicants that are appropriate so that they can build an amazing class? </p>
<p>It takes just common sense to figure that you need an academic and financial safety on the list. So what’s with the anger?</p>
<p>The problem with your analogy is that Mercedes dealers typically don’t market cars to broke 17 year olds who cannot drive.</p>
<p>pg, I do think there are significant differences. </p>
<p>Do the Mercedes brochures look like letters that make the potential customers feel as if they will get the car for a lot less money or with more options than everyone else? That is not a perfect analogy, but these letters, as discussed on a different thread a few months ago, do sound very personal and interested in the candidate, and make the candidate feel “selected” or targeted. That is a far cry from being accepted, but it feels a little deceitful, as if these candidates may have a better chance than the average applicant, as if they RE “WANTED” FOR SOME REASON. [THEiR APPLICATIONS ARE WANTED, for sure…LOL]
I think these letters and brochures could be MUCH more upfront about how selective the schools are on all fronts- showing lots of different stats and graphs and %ages… </p>
<p>There are not “too many buyers” of Mercedes cars. And the price stays pretty level, no matter the demand. And more cars can be be built to meet the demand. In contrast, the tippy tops always say they could fill at least one more than class with just as good applicants from a given year’s pool, so why the heavy crude mass but personal-sounding/seductive because it feels targeted marketing? </p>
<p>Mercedes wants to build as many cars as possible and sell them, not so the colleges. Mercedes makes more money per car, the more cars they sell- that is called leverage, as fixed costs are covered. The colleges- do they really benefit much (in quality of applicants even) from the additional volume of applications?</p>
<p>I would also say that there are many observers who consider the acceptance rates on their own— these are compared over and over again, and it becomes a little ranking for prestige unto itself, so the impact on the USNWR is not the only way to look at this. Yes, ranking by acceptance rate is a crude measure of popularity and selectivity- not accurate at all but very much used. There is a new thread ranking this year’s acceptances rates being developed right now in the College Admissions Forum, if I am not mistaken… I think the colleges DO want to keep up on that list. Sadly, it is human to think that something is worth more if it is harder to get or more of a struggle or more competitive.
And I am sure the colleges are aware that there is parsing going on about the increase or decrease in overall number of apps, too.</p>
<p>"The problem with your analogy is that Mercedes dealers typically don’t market cars to broke 17 year olds who cannot drive.</p>
<p>Good one, gourmetmom! I don’t think that I would say there anger on this board, GT, at least not on this thread. Maybe a bit of disgust. Honestly…to think that there are high stats kids that have never heard of Harvard, until they get that brochure that makes them think, wow, Harvard wants ME to apply. Such silliness. I’d say it’s more that people are irritated that a school like that would be pulling such a con job. Do you really think that they do that for any other reason whatsoever than to get more applicants, so their acceptance level can go down? Yep, they’ll still be number one, but maybe next year less than 1% of applicants get accepted. And maybe they’ll send those application packages to every single high school senior who takes the SAT, because you never know where you might find the diamond in the rough, it could be you. Then they could get that acceptance rate down below 0.1%, and then we would all be so impressed.</p>
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<p>Exactly. I fail to see what’s ethically wrong with this.</p>
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<p>People have posted what these letters look like. Gee, they use the student’s name … well, duh, some word-processing machine substitutes in “Dear Jenny” or “Dear Bob,” big deal. There is nothing that’s ever been posted that appears to be in the least deceitful. They never promise you you’ll get in; they say you’re the kind of student we’d love to have. Well, that’s generally true, since they bought the mailing list that includes your general characteristics. The fact that supposedly-bright kids can’t figure out that the glossy brochure from Harvard is no different from the glossy brochure from the car dealer or Restoration Hardware - that they were part of a direct marketing list because of their SAT scores or somesuch - isn’t Harvard’s problem, at all.</p>
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<p>You seriously doubt the existence of high stats kids who have never heard of Harvard, or who don’t think of Harvard as a serious “contender” / place they should consider, or erroneously think it’s all a bunch of snobs or rich kids and not a place where they would fit in? Time to get out a bit more. Again, the whole country is not affluent upper middle class suburbia.</p>
<p>“You seriously doubt the existence of high stats kids who have never heard of Harvard, or who don’t think of Harvard as a serious “contender” / place they should consider, or erroneously think it’s all a bunch of snobs or rich kids and not a place where they would fit in?”</p>
<p>I am sure there are plenty of high stats kids who don’t think they are serious contenders for Harvard. And they are right. When you have an acceptance rate so incredibly low, because you are encouraging everybody and their mother to apply…if you don’t have a major hook, it doesn’t matter about your stats, you’re still not getting in. And even if you do, the odds are very low.</p>
<p>I have a question for you. Do you really think the “get out the application” effort is to truly find that “diamond in the rough” who might not know about them, or is purely to decrease their acceptance rate for reasons of status?</p>
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<p>Yes. In my family, they sent my D (2370 SAT 5.2 GPA and #1 in class of 500) who had a realistic chance of getting into Harvard multiple mailings. S, with the exact stats as the OP’s son, didn’t hear a word. I seems to me that they directed their advertising to an appropriate market.</p>
<p>Sorry I assumed anger, it was in the thread title.</p>
<p>Didn’t this kid take a gap year? If so, even if he had a halfway decent GC when he WAS in high school, as a graduate he may not have had much access. Even then, many GCs just are paper pushers.</p>
<p>Anyway…it’s rather obvious that the parent and the student were unaware that his test scores (what was his M+CR??) were not that high for a STEM major…especially for THOSE schools. Certainly a 2010 SAT is respectable, but it’s not “excellent” by todays’ competitive schools that are accepting STEM majors with SATs in the 2150+ range. Even the mid-tiers don’t even give much merit to a 2010 SAT. I’m not saying this to be harsh, it’s the reason why he was either rejected or waitlisted. (To the parent who used UCLA as an example of where her 2040 child was accepted, the UCs are largely GPA driven…and UCLA just rejected my cousin’s son who had nearly straight A’s and an ACT 33…so things are unpredictable there anyway.) </p>
<p>Did we ever learn what his UW GPA was? </p>
<p>If the OP decides to come back, I hope she provides more info. </p>
<p>Is her son going to do another gap year? If so, will he retest? (perhaps the student and mom weren’t aware that kids often practice for these tests and often retake a few times) And will he also take the ACT?</p>
<p>Also, if this student isn’t a URM or have any particular hooks, his stats will typically have to be high for these top schools. They get enough apps from non-URMs with high stats.</p>
<p>What is his UW GPA and Weighted GPA? </p>
<p>Are finances an issue? If not, there may be some schools that he could still get into?</p>
<p>Do the Mercedes brochures look like letters that make the potential customers feel as if they will get the car for a lot less money or with more options than everyone else?</p>
<p>Not exactly…but they do try to imply that with their financing that nearly anyone can get into a MB. The loans are probably 10 years long! lol</p>
<p>but these schools really do want to get the kids from East Bumble who might not have heard of their school</p>
<p>True…but they also never want to stumble down the US News ladder.</p>
<p>No anger, just scrutiny of the process.</p>
<p>Lookingfoward, who claims to have the inside information on the app pool at these schools posted:</p>
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<p>So, why bother advertising for more of those run of the mill student apps?</p>
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<p>supposedly-bright.</p>
<p>“You seriously doubt the existence of high stats kids who have never heard of Harvard, or who don’t think of Harvard as a serious “contender” / place they should consider, or erroneously think it’s all a bunch of snobs or rich kids and not a place where they would fit in?”</p>
<p>I am sure there are plenty of high stats kids who don’t think they are serious contenders for Harvard. "</p>
<p>Ah, but I’m asking a different question. Do you doubt that there are an appreciable number of high stat kids who come from either backgrounds or parts of the country where Harvard (et al) just simply isn’t on the radar screen, and who are laboring under outdated assumptions that Harvard is for rich kids, snobs, and not “kids like me”?</p>
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<p>Because they are hoping that in the process, they’ll find the diamond in the rough.</p>
<p>JHS gave an appropriate analogy on a similar thread - why does American Idol go to umpteen cities? They could find all the talent they needed if they just went to NY and LA; there is more than enough to fill it all up. Similarly, there are more than enough kids in Fairfax County, Short Hills, etc. to fill up these schools with high quality talent. So? These schools used to be like that, 50, 60 years ago. They don’t want to be that anymore. So they outreach. A few Short Hills kids are “disappointed.” Oh well. Really.</p>