Angry over the college admissions process

<p>Go to the local Community College for two years - work hard and with good grades transfer to a four year school after you finish the Community College program.</p>

<p>It’s been a very tough year. I suspect worse than most. More and more kids are applying to more schools using the common app, free app fees, and because of herd mentality. It used to be embarrassing to admit you were applying to more than 8 schools. I was in the closet with my 6 in my day and had to split up the teacher’s references because in the Dark Ages each one had to be done individually. Now it just takes minutes more to do an additional app and the colleges are all screaming “Here, here! Apply here!” My son hardly had any app fees since he got freebies for applying on line, during a visit, with a special code, etc, etc. </p>

<p>So there are all of these kids applying and only so many seats to be had. Gets the adcoms nervous because their head will be stuck on sticks if they can’t get a full class with all of those applications, and yet they fully know that there are not all that many kids. So the waitlist becomes heavily used with ridiculous numbers. I can’t wait to see the musical chairs on that one as the waitlist notifications come rolling out and kids switch from one waitlist to another. </p>

<p>At the beginning of the season, I wrote dozens of posts to mainly kids that the challenge of college applications, the main challenge is to find that college, or colleges, that will certainly admit you, meet your needs, that you can like and that your family can afford. Once you have at least one of those, make that school your focus. Imagine going there. Bond with it. Visit it and let the adcoms there know you love them. Safeties are not safeties too often these days when demonstrated interest has become a key issue. With kids applying to so many schools, they cannot give each on the attention they could if there were only a handful on their list, and they tend to fawn and focus on the reach schools that often could not care less if any student is interested. They know everyone is interested in them. If you think courting the admissions department at Harvard or like schools gets you anywhere, then you are smoking some crazy stuff. </p>

<p>So kids ignore what they feel are the sure shot schools, and even the ones they consider matches and focus on those reaches, which are just that–reaches. And in my book, any school that takes fewer kids than they reject is a reach. I don’t think it 's what many call a “Tuft’s syndrome” thing, It’s a lack of attention sort of thing, And adcoms are tuned into what students want their school.</p>

<p>My son with SAT scores not even hitting 1600, and a 3.5 weighted average was accepted to schools that should have been high reaches because he showed them the love and kept in touch with them. He truly paid tribute to them. He visited the school and made sure he introduced himself to the admissions counselor that would handle his app, e-mailed him/her regularly and let each counselor know he would truly be honored to be accepted. Those same schools like Gettysburg, Dickinson, Holy Cross, were safeties to a number of his peers and they gave them little attention. They were too busy courting BC, UCh, Cornell, where they don’t care that much about attention showered on them by kids who were not way up there with the stats. So demonstrated interest is very important these days, especially in these smaller schools where each acceptance carries a lot of weight percentage wise. </p>

<p>So what to do now? Send in the wait list cards, put together a package of anything that can enhance the applications. Write a letter about personal plans for the summer, the future and what that school can do to play apart. Tell the adcoms what you can add to the school. Visit if they will let you. Send a few e-mails and show some heart and love.Have your GC call as well. </p>

<p>Also the list is coming out in May, and I have a feeling there will be some good schools on it. There might be a record low in acceptances this year, but it’s not that there are so many actual bodies that are going to show up. All of those apps are going to turn into one acceptance per kid and some of those classes put together by those adcoms are going to go up into the air like “poof”.</p>

<p>“This is a HOLISTIC process where the candidates have to meet the academic qualifications AND demonstrate maturity and character through soulful essays which reveal some degree of self -examination, and both confidence and humility, and also demonstrate knowledgeable interest in the college.”</p>

<p>It’s true, but it actually should be expressed in the negative. For any school that rejects more than 50% of their applicants, it is easier to start by looking for reasons to REJECT applicants than accept them. True - they need the legacies, the developmental admits, the football quarterback, the oboe player, etc., etc., and enough who can pay the bill, but once you go much beyond that, there is a large cast of unknown players, the majority of whom have to be rejected. </p>

<p>So if you were them, where would you start? Well, the ones who write poorly, or who seem to be struggling with uncontrolled mental issues. The ones for whom recommendations are lukewarm at best. The ones who seem like drones, and bring nothing else to the table except maybe they were vice president of the chess club. The ones who look very unbalanced (SAT v. GPA) for which there is no clear reason, and no upward curve in the GPA. The ones who have had problems with the law. The ones who will cost the school a lot (compared with others that will do the same). The ones that come from large schools where there are five other applicants who look better. </p>

<p>Looked at this way, and remembering that the admissions office is trying to build a class to meet their institutional mission rather than simply find a bunch of individuals, it becomes more evident that this is NOT a lottery (though decisions may be made without all the information necessary to have made different ones.) </p>

<p>SO, for purposes of getting off the waiting list - figure out why it is you didn’t get in the first time. Don’t tell them that since you applied, you became president of the chess club, or (if you’d already shown you were good at math) that you were elected to the math honor society. Ask yourself: if they didn’t take me the first time, why should they change their minds? What got in the way the first time around? And address it.</p>

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<p>A kid who was rejected from UMASS Amherst and waitlisted at American never had a shot at those schools. I think your son must have recieved terrible advice along the line. </p>

<p>I wish him the best of luck and hopefully he’ll get pulled off a waitlist.</p>

<p>Strong science schools-- It’s too late for fall but Franklin and Marshall accepts Spring admits. I don’t think Case does but that’s another school I would have recommended; it might be worth a call.</p>

<p>If you don’t need financial aid, is it too late to look at Canadian universities? From what I understand, they are more likely to look at test scores than grades.</p>

<p>I’m saying there must be something else wrong with the application that we’re not hearing about here. I suggested GPA and LOR as possibilities.</p>

<p>With the standardized test scores mentioned in the OP, I cannot understand the rejection from UMASSAmherst.</p>

<p>Back in the day
one of my kids got a waitlist from UM College Park. His SAT combined was 1350 (CR/Math only), and his GPA was 3.3. He was WELL within their accepted student profile. He decided to stay on the waitlist (for some odd reason)
and was eventually outright rejected from the school. It was very odd. He went to a university ranked 60
or so. </p>

<p>Sometimes funny things happen.</p>

<p>To anyone new reading this thread
with fear
one VERY good thing to have on every college application list is ONE rolling admission or Early ACTION school. In my kids’ cases, these were both schools that were very likely to accept them. The kiddos got acceptances to the rolling schools very early in the application process, and to their EA schools before Christmas. They at least KNEW they were going somewhere
and if they had NOT been accepted at these schools would have had plenty of time to adjust their application lists for the RD round.</p>

<p>To the two parents
Mary and Metal
things feel very discouraging right now. BUT as someone upstream pointed out, time to regroup and take action with the next plan. Look at other options whatever those might be.</p>

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<p>my son decided that the rolling admit school he applied to and was accepted to in September was where he wanted to be. He started to work on other college aps, but his heart was not into them. In the end, he decided to go to what started out as a “safety” school because of the opportunities and merit aid available. And focused on applying to scholarships istead.</p>

<p>I’d like to suggest a couple of takeaways:

  1. It is human nature to persuade ourselves that what our kid has (whether it is GPA, scores, or something else) is what should matter, and what our kid doesn’t have shouldn’t matter. But the truth is that at the most selective schools, all those things matter.
  2. I suspect that GPA is more complicated than just the raw unweighted number–I think that there may be a 3.2 that’s pretty good, and a 3.2 that’s not so good. A 3.2 that is the result of a lot of Bs is one thing, but one that is the result of some Cs and Ds in academic classes is something else.
  3. Just to repeat what others have said: it’s all about having a realistic list that includes real safeties.</p>

<p>As others have mentioned, there are still schools accepting applications. It’s time to start applying while still writing letters to waitlist schools showing intent.</p>

<p>Otherwise, I agree with others who suggest anyone reading for future have a rolling admissions school and/or EA school on the application list as a safety. It makes the process a bit more sane when there’s an accepted letter in the bag.</p>

<p>Lottery schools are called that for a reason. An SAT score >2000 is a nice score, but it certainly guarantees nothing and really isn’t all that good when only trying for top schools. A 3.1 GPA definitely shows red flags when coupled with a 36 ACT. Those types in school can be annoying (stereotyping, of course, based upon what I see at school). I can fully understand why colleges don’t care for them unless they find out they break the stereotype. It’s that whole “never learned to play nicely with others, esp those in charge” factor.</p>

<p>For my latest college student, I did not feel EA or rolling was a good option for him. His transcript was showing a good upward trend that he and I knew had to be continued senior year, and he had finally worked his way up to honors, AP and college level courses at that point. His toughest year was senior year and he had to ace first term to have a shot at those schools he was considering. We were late getting into the college app mode and I needed him active and engaged; I refuse to do it for my kids, so we did not get apps out until later in the season. His high school counselor felt that in his case, it was an advantage. He missed the crazy crush of apps and I believe that his apps were more carefully examined even in the big state schools as he was accepted even being in the lower 25% in stats. Mini’s daughter’s story kept me going, to be honest, because I really was concerned about those test scores. </p>

<p>He met personally with each admissions counselor and told each in his very earnest way that he was a slow starter who got better over time, and his first semester senior year grades were golden. He had fantastic interviews with each counselor and he was sincere that he truly wanted to be accepted to the school. He was afraid he wasn’t going to get into any school, so each one was a desired gem to him and they knew it. And he kept in touch. He was taking college courses second term and doing well in them, and made sure they knew his progress and how those courses would fit into each college’s curriculum. He had to do a lot of courting, and at the time we had no idea if it would pay off. It did. </p>

<p>But with the kids before him, yes, we did EA and rolling, and it made senior year a lot easier on everyone’s nerves.</p>

<p>chaosakita:
imo, in the case of mentalgardener’s son, having a 3.1 GPA does show extreme laziness. I am not really the epitome of conscientiousness myself, but I myself did not get a GPA anywhere that low, and I managed to get into some top 10 LACs. (Well, two) If someone is not willing to do the basic work required by the school, I don’t think they deserve a spot in a top college at all. </p>

<p>GPA 3.1=not doing basic work? Can’t agree. For example, My S had a AP english class with a policy of “1 late assignment automatically gets F for whole semester”, and the assignment was posted after 9PM online due next morning 8am by a teacher who does NOT depend on teacher’s salary for living(rich family).
In addition, where are the measure and place in college application for creativity, independent thinking, originality, and take initiatives to do things out of ordinary
?</p>

<p>I’ll put in for my state schools, since I think all three are still taking admissions and they’re not mentioned much. I don’t know too much about them, sorry!</p>

<p>Iowa State is a good public school for engineering, probably sciences too, I’m not sure. The cost is 28 thousand for out of state. [Iowa</a> State University Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.iastate.edu/]Iowa”>http://www.admissions.iastate.edu/)</p>

<p>University of Iowa is more expensive for out of state students, 35 thousand. I hear the honors college is pretty good, although I don’t know if they’re still accepting admissions. [Undergraduate</a> Admissions - The University of Iowa](<a href=“http://www.uiowa.edu/admissions/undergrad/index.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.uiowa.edu/admissions/undergrad/index.html)</p>

<p>University of Northern Iowa is the forgotten state school that is ALWAYS happy to have out of state students, from what I have heard. Out of state cost is 23 thousand. [UNI</a> Office of Admissions](<a href=“http://www.uni.edu/admissions/]UNI”>Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined | Admissions & Aid)</p>

<p>I really don’t know much about these schools, except that U of Iowa is definitely still taking applications and the other two likely are, and they’re not discussed much outside of Iowa.</p>

<p>“In addition, where are the measure and place in college application for creativity, independent thinking, originality, and take initiatives to do things out of ordinary
?”</p>

<p>Where indeed? My d. (below) with the ACT a fraction of your son’s, raised all the funds necessary to bring an Israeli-Palestinian team to our hometown to help defuse conflicts here, went on tour with them and wrote about it, played benefit concerts on both coasts, helped organize a major international conference (and did the accounting for it), applied for and won a scholarship from the State Department to study Arabic in Cairo, led a lobbying team in DC (we are from 3,000 miles away)
 The list gets longer. They DO want to see creativity, independent thinking, originality, and initiative - but if that’s what you are trading on (because of a low GPA and/or SAT), the stock better be pretty darn good (and be packaged well).</p>

<p>“Mini’s daughter’s story kept me going, to be honest, because I really was concerned about those test scores.”</p>

<p>Thanks. Sniff. Sniff. She graduates with a Masters Degree in five weeks, still at the age of 21, should have her CPA shortly thereafter, already has a great job (she’s been working close to full time), and we’ll see what happens next. (In a late night phone call several weeks ago, she told me she now realizes how smart she really is
and is interested in
neuroscience.)</p>

<p>Can you tell I’m a proud poppa? I’m also deliriously happy about the undergraduate educations both girls received.</p>

<p>I think Mini is being a bit harsh is the way he is depicting the admissions process for some of these schools. However, when you are rejecting more kids than you are accepting, which has become the case when the number of applications unexpectedly increase sharply for some of these school hovering at the 50-60% accept rates historically, it becomes a process of elimination out of necessity.</p>

<p>But a friend of mine who works in admissions to a school in this category says that there are a group of applicants that are automatic accepts upon a quick perusal, and a group that are automatic rejections. The big group in the middle pretty much has to be sorted into categories, and that’s when one sees the similarity of applicants. If your kid is in a stack that is high, because he is so like so many others applying to that school and there is not a category that is more specific to him that addresses some of his more outstanding qualities, bear in mind that only the top whatever number will be taken from each stack. Schools want that diversity in community and if they are concerned that there are too many kids from Pennsylvania ( CMU does have a PA stack ), for example, your chances are lower when you are from there. Females often have higher stacks than males, because more of them are applying especially to LACs and schools want some sort of a balance. There is also serendipity involved because we rarely know what a school’s internal needs and wants are. The classics department might be aggressively be campaigning for more students, and the adcoms are not going to want to get into that fight so anyone who is majoring in that subject would get a leg up that year over the other majors. If the choral director is active in the admissions process, singers will get more of a boost at that school. And if the adcom is a distance runner who has a soft place for those who run, and your kid happened to write an essay on his love of that sport, well, he’s earned some bonus points right there. Being vice pres of the chess club is not going to garner any votes if the adcom thinks the game is boring and hates it. So yes, it can be a crap shoot, but there are elements in that game too that are not entirely chance as well as a lot of chance involved.</p>

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<p>How can we measure these things? Most 18-year-olds do not have sufficient life experience to have demonstrated these abilities. How would your S convey these qualities to an adcom?</p>

<p>It’s not helpful for us to excuse our teens’ failures to follow rules and regulations. No professor or boss wants to have to argue or justify every deadline, etc. to a subordinate. Young people who want to be successful need to learn to follow instructions, function in an organization, and do what they’re told. When they can do that and bring value to an organization, then, and only then, can they start to get creative and break the rules.</p>

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<p>They might have been in an excellent letter of reference, or mentioned as part of some extra curricular activity
or in the essay the student wrote. BUT this would not explain away the HS GPA
it would just provide additional info about the student.</p>

<p>I have a 3.7, 2400 SAT. Many people felt that my GPA v. SAT was way off, and I wouldn’t get in anywhere. But truth is, I was much too busy putting in time volunteering than I was studying. With 980 hours of community service, I showed passion. And that is what life is about, passion. While I am not 100% sure that it is the reason I was accepted to all schools but two, I can assert with all my heart that the colleges I applied to saw that I was a passionate and driven individual. One not merely motivated by resume padding (I hold no leadership positions), but one who truly cares and wishes to make a difference. That tremendous passion that I put forth in everything that I do is, in my opinion, what got me over the edge. Not merely my SAt not my GPA.</p>

<p>At the end of the day, when you apply to college, you are putting your name in the lottery. No matter your stats, you cannot be sure you will get in. No matter what people tell you. It is a human process, and some results will be surprising.</p>

<p>I personally was accepted to Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Cornell, UPenn, Dartmouth, Brown, Vanderbilt, Duke, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan. And I was rejected at Columbia and Princeton. Why was I rejected at these two schools? Who knows
</p>

<p>With that said, do your best. Make sure as many factors as possible are in your favor, and hope.</p>

<p>Best of luck to the next waves of applicants.</p>

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<p>These “many” people are a clueless bunch. Glad you didn’t listen to them. Also, it depends on the context of your school as far as GPA goes. Your class rank gives that context, for example.</p>

<p>my dd have a 3.9 gpa, sat 2200, excellent rec,interview,very unique essay, one with her summer experience on usna and other one talk about what she learn from her volunteer experience from abusive children shelter and help her peers in school as counselor. captain of varsity tennis, first chair violin,she’s a class president with not just a title but did so many incredible things that can benefit not just their class but for many future student in h.s. while working part time lifeguard. and she’s not doing it just because it looks good on the paper but she has passion for helping others. she brought up in low income single parent home and she’s a first one to go to college if that’s a hook in college application process then she should have been admitted to all the college that she applied to but in reality she got rejected by harvard/yale/dartmouth/brown. where they imply need blind admission.:(</p>