Another math sequence question/ likely future math major/ rising junior

I’m assuming a lot of repetition, I haven’t actually seen the syllabi for the 2 classes. But I know that some kids do skip AB… they just didn’t have enough spots for everyone who wanted to do that. I’ll ask around to see if I can figure out how many more kids wanted BC who didn’t get it. We didn’t find out about the placement until 2-3 weeks before school got out and were too busy at that point with other stuff to make much of a stink about it. My kid’s direct guidance counselor is one of the most junior ones at the school but I haven’t had much luck going over her head in other matters (although I haven’t escalated anything beyond her immediate supervisor yet and I’m friendly with the principal so maybe it’s worth going way up the ladder just for a friendly email).

^Check the course catalog to see what the official prerequisite is for BC. Beyond that, I might also email the calc teacher and also ask around if you can find students who took BC last year. (for example, at my kids’ school, for years AB and BC were completely separate, without overlap, with AB being the official prereq, though unofficially a few top students would study AB material over the summer to take BC. So many started to do this that the official prereq in the catalog was changed to honors precalc, but unfortunately the BC course wasn’t actually changed, and only included an extremely brief review of AB material, leaving quite a hump at the start of the course. Not sure what’s happening this fall as there are department changes afoot.)

I don’t believe that MIT or Caltech require calc 3; rather, just some level of calculus. Harvey Mudd is another school that requires applicants to have taken calculus.

If an applicant’s HS offers calc 3, then yes, these colleges would expect an applicant to have taken it. And I’m sure they would appreciate an applicant seeking advanced math classes beyond the HS offerings, so continue to look for those options as described above. MIT even offers suggestions on their website: http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/highschool. But applicants are accepted without calc 3.

I just asked my DS who just graduated after taking AB as a junior and BC as a senior. He didn’t bother with stats. He said that at his school (a good private college prep school in the midwest) that students aren’t permitted to take BC without AB first, and that well over half the material in BC was not covered in AB. And that there was some concepts in BC that needed the background of AB first. So at his school BC is NOT just an accelerated version of AB. He got a 5 on his AB test, and we’ll see what he got on the BC test in a few days.

Stats is a class that can easily be taken anytime, even over the summer. At our school it’s considered considerably easier than calc and attracts the business-track students who don’t need calc for college.

Another vote for AP Stat jr year and calc BC sr year

@makemesmart the reason they have AB and BC is that some students who are not math wizards just take AB and are done, while the smarter kids usually just take the BC to begin with. Many hs are like this. If a kid did pre-cal (not honors), but did well (or conversely if a kid did pre-cal Honors and did iffy) then the next step in the track may be Cal AB, not the more challenging and faster paced BC.

Thank you @LvMyKids2
At my S20’ school, Calc AB/BC was in place of IB SL for two years, and pre-cal honor with B+ With teacher’s recommendation are the pre-req. I hope there won’t be too many overlaps as Calc BC is the highest math offered at his school.

For many majors in college, calc and stats are required, like the algebra 1 and geometry are required for high school.

BC is probably 20% more materials than AB. Those extra stuff include the parametric differentials, arc length, polar, and the Tayler series. There is no need to spend another semester for these things.

Stats is not easy. It is considered easy because it has a lower entry point. And most stats materials can not be taught without calc knowledge. Stats is probably the most useful math learned at high school level. The concepts and materials require much stronger understanding in math and english.

For instance, if we have some of basic concepts in stats, we would never use our kid (s) - a sample size of one - to generalize our thoughts about many things we think are right.

The problem is that college stats usually involves some knowledge of calculus, but AP Stats doesn’t. What’s in AB vs BC depends on how they are taught. I can’t imagine taking AB Calc which is essentially one semester stretched over a whole year and trying to some how teach myself BC while not yet actually having all the AB material. If it’s really only 20% more maybe, but I think it’s more than that. There aren’t any perfect solutions here - but Stats junior year and then BC Calc senior year seems like the most reasonable of the options.

It is probably a bad idea to take stats junior year and BC senior year. There is a purpose for precalc right before calc. The kid will forget some of important prerequisite materials for calc such as log and trig after a year.

It sounds like Calc AB followed by Calc BC is a normal sequence in this particular high school, even for kids who are accelerated and finish pre-calc in 10th grade. (It’s not clear how many juniors actually get to take BC). If that’s the case, it certainly won’t look strange to AOs who are used to seeing applications from this school. This student can’t be the first person intending on a math-related major so I would ask the GC what other students in the same boat have done.

I would vote for taking AB Calc and AP Stats junior year and Calc BC senior year. Alternatively, wait and see if some people drop Calc BC early on, especially some juniors who managed to get a spot in BC. There may be some kids whose final pre-calc grades were lower than expected who will opt to take AB instead.

In my son’s HS, kids who get an A in honors precalc usually take BC (regardless of whether they are in 9th grade or 12th grade). They base the number of classes offered on the number of qualified students who request the class. It is not unusual for some of those kids to drop down to AB.

While true, stats in college, particularly for STEM majors, is generally calc-based.

45% is probably a closer number.

Just be warned that Stat in college is calc-based, and it is nothing like the AP course. S2 took the AP course, got a 5, but couldn’t apply the credit in college. Took Stat in college figuring he’d have a leg up, and got hammered instead.

S1’s AP Stat class was one-semester, with BC as a pre-req. Also got a 5 on the AP. The point: one can get a 5 on the AP without having a good handle on the college-level of understanding required!

For someone who wants a math or related major, get the most rigorous courses you can consistent with having the fundamentals nailed down. The better the foundation, the better one will navigate the major.

^ This may be a perfect illustration of why understanding the basic stats is important.

AP stats is just an intro stats. A 5 in AP stats can earn 4 credit points at Harvard. (Just checked that Stanford will not accept AP stats credit next year)

Calc based stats only meant to describe the distributions such as t and F distributions in gamma functions which are in the integral form. More advanced will associate with multi regression and bayes hypothesis tests. You will not get into these untill you finish the linear algebra. No way the little calc knowledge learned from the scrapy BC is enough.

It is the stats concepts and application assumptions that are difficult to understood. Early and properly exposed to stats will help a lot eventually to understand many things associated with stats. Like many arguments here to make a point by using a sample of size one, especially a biased sample that is remotely representative of the population.

BTW starting in 2020 Harvard won’t be accepting AP or IB credits though the exams can be used for placement.

https://college.harvard.edu/academics/planning-your-degree/advanced-standing

why not take both AB+AP Stats concurrently next year?

Not necessarily. Lotsa Universities offer both calc-based and Algebra-based calc.

College Stat for math majors is calc based (may be required for other science majors also). Colleges offer stat for other majors which is not calc-based. This is because, as others have noted, an understanding of statistics is helpful for analyzing data for research in any field.

OP: is the usual sequence at your HS to take AB junior year and BC senior year or do kids just take one or the other? If the former, then why not take AB and then BC? If the latter, why not take AP Stats and AP comp science in 11th grade and then BC in 12th. Are there other AP/honors science classes to take? AP physics?

Goo dluck!

My daughter’s high school doesn’t let kids jumpmdirectly to Calc BC. So she took AB in 10th, BC in 11th and then will take MVC online and AP stats in person next year.

MIT does not “expect” Calc III for applicants. One student at our school who was accepted to MIT last year didn’t have anything beyond Calc BC and AP stats - when she found out what my daughter had coordinated and approved for next year she was a little envious that we had figured out how to get more math when the school didn’t offer it and the CC options here didn’t work well.

As for what to do next year -

Is there room in her schedule to take both stats and one of the Calc classes at the same time either this year or next year? What other challenging classes will your I’d be taking as a junior? Having time for other activities is an issue too.

No US university expects math beyond calculus in high school, and very few require or recommend calculus in high school.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2015601-what-us-universities-explicitly-state-that-calculus-is-required-or-expected-for-frosh-applicants-p2.html