Another premed question: USC Full tuition vs. Duke vs. Northwestern

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Sorry about starting yet another one of these threads about which school will prepare me best...but I've been thinking a long time and really could use some help.</p>

<p>Anyway, when I was accepted into the Penn State & Jefferson Medical College 6/7 Yr BS/MD program, I thought I would go there for sure. I would still have to take the MCAT (27+) and get a 3.5 GPA, but I thought this was less than I would have to do as an average premed to get into med school. I could coast and have fun for two years, not stressing about applying, and then get to the hard work in med school.</p>

<p>But only when I got into Duke did I have second thoughts. I visited the campus and liked it, though not as much as USC, and attended a session with one of the premed advisors. She talked about how much Duke would let me grow as a person and the 85% med school acceptance rate, and I realized that two years for college just wasn't enough to have experiences and mature before med school. (And plus saying I'm a Duke student is just much more satisfying than a Penn State student). Maybe I'm a little too optimistic at this point, but I feel like I can get into med school if I work hard, but I'm really afraid of regretting this if I end up at a school worse than Jefferson or nowhere at all. Now I'm trying to figure out what school could offer the best college experience AS WELL AS a good chance as a premed in the increasingly competitve process.</p>

<p>When I visited USC, I really felt welcomed and it seemed like a bright, fun campus. Also, the full tuition is a big plus though money isn't one of the most important factors here. And based on what I've read about being a premed, USC would probably be my best chance at a high GPA of the three schools, but it is less prestigious than the other two. However, I previously wanted to get out of California and experience something new for college, but I have few complaints with LA and I'm sure I'd love it if I ended up there.</p>

<p>I never really thought much about Northwestern, but now the school is growing on me. Of the three locations, I think Chicago would be the best place to live, and from everything I've heard about Evanston and the campus (haven't visited yet), it is a beautiful place to spend four years as a college student. The sciences are also definitely strong, but I'm quite afraid of the competitiveness. I've heard horror stories about the orgo classes and other weed-out science classes at Northwestern and am afraid that I might mess up my GPA or something crucial. </p>

<p>And Duke is probably the most prestigious and strongest academically of the three schools, though the location is a slight turn-off. As I mentioned before, I liked the campus overall except for the whole East-West commute thing and how empty it seemed to be. The students seemed to be involved in their own activities and it didn't have that energetic, spirited aura I felt at USC. This could be an exaggeration because I was only there for a few hours, and I've heard plenty of good things about the campus and spirit (as well as bad things about the area and the typical people who go there). A plus for Duke is that it has basically the best major I've found to match my interests: Biological Anthropology and Anatomy, and a great science program to go with it. Yet the same questions come to mind as with Northwestern. I don't know how well I could succeed at a tough school like this, and would it be best for me in the long run to go with USC where I could probably do better but sacrifice some quality in education.</p>

<p>Ok, so that turned out pretty lengthy, but I just felt like putting that out there for anyone who has had experience with any of the schools. I really wish I could know how tough NU or Duke really would be, but I won't know how prepared I am until I'm actually there. Any input at all would be much appreciated, because I am quite confused.</p>

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<p>if you are 100% sure you want to be a doctor (very hard to be as a high school senior) then I would do the BS/MD programs. Otherwise I would take a close look at USC. Unless your parents are willing to pay, it is probably a great idea to be debt free going into medical school.</p>

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<p>number 1: check if Penn/ Jefferson is a binding program or not- can you apply out after 3 years of Undergrad
number 2: USC seems like a very good deal - however, double check how well they send their premed students to med school</p>

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<p>1.) The East-West commute's not that big a deal, I promise. Central can be a pain, but East-West buses run quite frequently. A little intelligence in timing can keep the trip very short. (*Do NOT use the extra stop on East. Go to the main stop.)</p>

<p>2.) Obviously this depends on your family's financial situation. Generally Duke's financial aid should be pretty good by many standards, but of course your family might not feel the same way. The bottom line is that $40,000 doesn't mean the same thing to all families, and your family might be one of the ones that can afford it. In that case, you should clearly go to Duke, not least because it sounds like that's where your heart is.</p>

<p>3.) Duke kids don't have problems getting into medical school. In fact, more of our students apply each year than declare themselves premeds as freshmen, implying a *negative *attrition rate as time goes on. So the 85% is really a true 85%.</p>

<p>4.) Trust me, if Jefferson is offering you an MD now, it's because they know that you're the kind of student to whom they'd offer one four years from now anyway and they're trying to "snag" you early.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=298878%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=298878&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

5

<p>Well, having sweated through med school app process for my kid, my views have changed considerably than before. If you are sure you want to be an MD and there is a program that will take you and seat you, I'd strongly consider it. </p>

<p>No matter how smart you are, it isn't that easy. Things happen that muck up the process and guess what? Nobody cares. You take your lumps and move on. Applied to 7 medschools and interviewed with 2. 3 of the 7 rejected application outright because professor was two days late with letter of rec(incomplete materials) past deadline. Another two said thanks, but no thanks. The other two were extreme opposites of the interview process. One was a 1 to 1, the other a 3v1. The 3v1, was cold, impersonal. </p>

<p>Almost a month away from graduation and he had no idea what was going on 60 days from now. Both his GPA and MCAT were very good, but we still had no idea until last week. So confidence is one thing, but if a school will lay out a path for you and take away that tension, I'd certainly consider it. </p>

<p>Duke is certainly a wonderful school and the chances are you might get accepted elsewhere for med, but a bird in the hand vs..?</p>

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<p>1.) You can't be late. This is why you ask professors in March for recs to be sent in in May so that you don't miss the November deadlines. Besides, anybody with half-decent advising knows that the deadlines are nonsense anyway -- anybody normal who actually applies at the deadlines is going to find that the class is already full.</p>

<p>2.) Applying to seven med schools?! That's a very, very low number. The national average is more than twelve. That's just the way things are done nowadays.</p>

<p>3.) If you apply rightly -- including a good spread of schools and good timing -- it's very possible, even likely, that you'll have an acceptance in hand by October 15. I had two by that time.</p>

<p>4.) I can't tell where Opie's child went to school, but I can tell you this: something went wrong in the advising process if he/she's missing deadlines and only applying to seven schools.</p>

<p>5.) Duke will not let you make mistakes like that. For that matter, CC won't let you make mistakes like that.</p>

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<p>Well, he's in. </p>

<p>"1.) You can't be late."</p>

<p>Agreed. He gave his professors the actual deadline instead of a fake one. One prof, mailed his stuff the day before. Profs had paperwork for three months. Just one failed to do it in a timely manner. And it only takes one. </p>

<p>"anybody normal who actually applies at the deadlines is going to find that the class is already full." </p>

<p>Kind of a cheap shot comment don't you think? NORMAL? A jan 1st deadline for August enrollments. The late letter showed up jan 3rd. mailed the 31st. </p>

<p>We failed to explain the need to give false deadlines to people who have to be involved in the process. That's my bad. He doesn't like to lie, stupid kid..even with good reasons. </p>

<p>"2.) Applying to seven med schools?! That's a very, very low number. The national average is more than twelve. That's just the way things are done nowadays."</p>

<p>Well then it's good to know he got in with one of the two he interviewed with. That must not be "normal". Had he done 12 he might have had more offers. </p>

<p>"3.) If you apply rightly -- including a good spread of schools and good timing -- it's very possible, even likely, that you'll have an acceptance in hand by October 15. I had two by that time."</p>

<p>Congrats. but we may be talking apples and oranges here. His was for fall of 07 and we just got word last week. </p>

<p>"4.) I can't tell where Opie's child went to school, but I can tell you this: something went wrong in the advising process if he/she's missing deadlines and only applying to seven schools."</p>

<p>Maybe so. Remember HE didn't miss a deadline, a prof did. HIS stuff was in two months prior. His mistake was not lying about a due date to a prof who was unaware it wasn't a phony due date, but the real one.</p>

<p>"5.) Duke will not let you make mistakes like that. For that matter, CC won't let you make mistakes like that. "</p>

<p>Well, bully for Duke. It's great to have such school spirit. However, aren't you a bit overconfident about Duke? Do they place 100% of their med students? </p>

<p>I suggested the poster look at the big picture, if he has an opportunity to go to a program and stay all the way through, it might be worth it compared to having to interview elsewhere. It's a matter of comparing probabilities? Which one give him the greatest probability of success? </p>

<p>What I pointed out is where we came up short in the process.. the idea being to help someone else AVOID the same mistakes. While it takes considerable confidence and knowledge to become a doctor, all it takes is a secretary with a HS education to scuddle your plans. Understand the point?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
You take your lumps and move on.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While the process is not the easiest thing in the world, I believe it was important to underscore that your child's advising team dropped the ball on this one and that such a process is not what the OP should expect to have to go through. A premedical student with a good advising team will not go through what your son went through and I didn't want the OP taking a guaranteed program due to a story which will *not *be his experience.</p>

<p>The point is not that your son should have lied to his professors about due dates; the point is that your son's advising team should have warned him that the due dates were not the important timeframes anyway -- that many medical schools give away a full third of their spots on the very first day, which is in October. Apps should not be sent in two months early -- they should be sent in six months early to a wide, diverse spread of schools.</p>

<p>Is the process busy? Yes. Is it stressful? Also yes. But good advisors can take this process and navigate you out of territory which seems arbitrary and unfair, and your son's team did not do so for him.</p>

<p>And, frankly, yes. If he applied to four schools two months before their deadlines and was admitted to one of them, your son must have been an extremely well-qualified candidate indeed. I shudder to think of what other, less over-qualified students had to go through.</p>

<p>That's what I meant when I referred to normal candidates. Had your son been one of those applying at the deadline, he would most certainly have found that there was no room left. If it's a cheap shot, it's a cheap shot against normal candidates like myself who felt the need to manage the process well.</p>

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<p>Hey thanks for your input so far...just wanted to add some things. The financial aspects really aren't that important to my family. I didn't apply for financial aid because my family is upper middle class and when my sister applied to college, she received practically nothing so I figured it wasn't worth the trouble. But we're not so well off that $120k is not a big deal. But again, I'm willing to sacrifice that for a good education.</p>

<p>At this point, I'm leaning towards Duke or Northwestern, but my heart isn't specifically set on Duke or anything. I'm really interested in Duke's premed program but I much prefer the Northwestern environment though it's been hard to find as much info on NU's advising or acceptance rate. To be honest, I'm sure my interest in Duke is a little related to having read so many of BDM's positive posts in favor of Duke (thank you for that).</p>

<p>If anyone's got input on NU, that would be helpful...otherwise until I visit, Duke seems to be the stronger option.</p>

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<p>One question darth, what will each school's undergrad and then med school cost? I know you say money doesn't matter, but it does eventually. Are you willing to pay full fare in both undergrad and med school? What debt do you see yourself (or your parents) dealing with? </p>

<p>What overall debt are you looking at? $250,000 to $500,000? If USC is going to pay for your undergrad and you're a good student why take the debt on?</p>

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<p>he will be able to pay that off in 2 to 3 years after residency :) do what you want Darth- Congrat</p>

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<p>"Had your son been one of those applying at the deadline, he would most certainly have found that there was no room left. If it's a cheap shot, it's a cheap shot against normal candidates like myself who felt the need to manage the process well."</p>

<p>NO, he applied basically when you did, this was secondary package stuff. It also was a lesson in delicate discourse between a professor and student whom needs a favor from the professor. It's a learning process that he wanted to experience more on his own. Had I known, I would have faked the dates, as I know people much better. </p>

<p>And none of you kids are NORMAL, you or mine. You are all exceptional individuals with strong skills and abilities that will benefit society down the road. However, what I've observed over time is many brillant people are not brillant in all aspects of life. Sometimes there's a bit of a gap that is brought up to speed by the failure learning curve. Do you learn from your mistakes? </p>

<p>Good luck to you and all success with some small failures you learn from to round yourself out as a person. Luck.</p>

13

<p>"he will be able to pay that off in 2 to 3 years after residency "</p>

<p>Honesty? or is that off the cuff? 2 or 3 years? ;) Is your math good here? Something doesn't jive. Are you factoring taxes, current expenses, future needs, and cost of living? I don't think it's going to be two or three years.</p>