<p>I'm totally flummoxed!! I just spoke to my daughter's "college counselor" at her high school. (Daughter is a soph. - good student - 4.0-all honors, lousy test taker.) Asked him about SAT II. Math is her strongest subject - now taking precalc H. He said that if she takes SAT II June 3 and doesn't do well, we DON'T have to send scores to colleges. This is NOT what I've been told by everyone else. He said we have 4 "freebie" SAT tests where we can just opt not to send the scores if we want. Is this right?? </p>
<p>Also he said for a lousy test taker, ACT is better than SAT. This sounds reasonable. Can anyone give me some guidance.</p>
<p>Thanks so much. She would need to sign up for the SAT II this Friday.</p>
<p>You can choose which ACT scores to send, but all SAT scores are recorded on a single sheet.</p>
<p>Depending on where your child is likely to apply, the ACT may have to be supplemented by a couple of SAT2s (only about 60 colleges require SAT2s). Most require only 2; Harvard requires 3. Both SAT and SAT2 scores appear on the same document.</p>
<p>Yes, you get scores sent to 4 schools for free each time she takes a SAT. And yes, she doesn't have to send her Math 2 scores anywhere. BUT, later when she sends SAT scores, ALL of the scores for all of the tests she has taken are sent. You cannot select which scores to send, they all go, both subject tests and the reasoning. Hope that makes sense.</p>
<p>The thing is, colleges look at the best scores, so if she does poorly this time she can repeat the test later. I was talking last night to my D who also took precalc in sophmore year and took the Math 2 that spring and she absolutely recommends taking the test at that time as everything is fresh. If your D waits until next year, she'll have to spend time reviewing. Take a look at the College Board website to see what's covered in the Math 2 test, that should give her a better idea of whether or not she's ready. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks! Entomom, what sort of preparation did your daughter have? How much studying (etc.) My daughter did the practice questions on the website and only got around 70% right (with no prep.) I'm torn about this. She's not going to apply to Ivies and I don't want to pressure her more than she is. And the GC (who knows nothing) said that hardly any of the sophs in our school take the SATII.</p>
<p>The College Board USED to offer "score choice" which allowed students to choose which scores to send. That ended at the end of my D's sophomore year in high school--5 years ago. Now all scores are sent. However, most colleges look at only the top three. </p>
<p>One student I know who was bored and required to stay for all three SAT2s took a foreign language test in a language she didn't know at all, basing her answers on the length of the replies and other test taking gimmicks. The colleges never even asked her about her 500. (All her other scores were 700 or better.)</p>
<p>Agree with all the below and some additional comments:</p>
<p>1) Momnewtothis, order the SAT 2 (Subject test) practice test books from Amazon or wherever and have your child actually TAKE THE TEST under identical test settings...timed, quiet room, etc. Then score the test. ONLY if the score is a good one should she take the test for real. Any and all scores taken on any and all SAT type tests are reported to every college to which you send scores. If she should unexpectedly not do well, you don't want to have spent the money or want the colleges to know. Find out ahead of time on a practice test.</p>
<p>2) Generally, scores on SAT and ACT end up being equivalent, but some students score better on one than the other. I do NOT recommend taking both blindly to "figure out" which she does better on. It's a waste of money and time. She should take one of each test in simulated test situations AT HOME and sort out which she scores better on BEFORE signing up to take the real thing. Take a practice test, decided which she does best on, prep for the test if necessary. Then take it for real. For prep, do an advanced search on these threads for the Xiggi Method. It's the best prep method out there and costs little. As noted above, ALL SAT scores which are available at the time go to all colleges when the request is made.</p>
<p>3) I do NOT recommend that the student write down ANY schools to send scores to at the time they take the test. Leave it blank. (If you can afford it). You want to see the results of the test before the scores actually get sent. After she has the scores, if she likes them, she can go on CB website and request the specific schools to send them too.</p>
<p>Hardly any sophs take the SAT2s at our school (I can't think of one). It is usually juniors (in May/June of junior year) and seniors (in the fall of senior year). You'd be surprised what a little maturity can do to help with the test.</p>
<p>I think you and the GC are talking at cross-purposes. He is right that you don't have to send the scores to colleges when you take any test. What he may not have been clear on is that when you DO send scores to colleges (and you most likely will sometime in the application period), the scores of ALL tests taken will show up on the report. So far, he doesn't sound like a Know-Nothing--just someone who can't communicate as precisely as I would like.</p>
<p>My advice--don't take the SAT2 Math as a sophomore. Use the summer to prep for the SAT--and seriously take the PSAT in the fall. If she is doing well on the practice tests, you may want to take the SAT1 in the fall.</p>
<p>You're welcome. Although everything is new and crazy now, I think you're going to find yourself way ahead of the curve this time next year. I understand where you're coming from about the pressure. But as the mom of a junior who got two SAT subject tests taken care of in sophomore year, I think it takes pressure off to have some of the tests out of the way early. I have to disagree slightly with the previous poster, I think that for subject tests (as with AP's), it's best to take them when the material is fresh. I'd agree with the maturity part more with the SAT reasoning test, although I think that varies with the kid and still recommend a fall/winter testing with a retest in the spring if necessary. </p>
<p>Even if she's not going for the most selective schools, most of the top schools require two subject tests. There are exceptions, WUSTL, UChicago, Macalester, Vanderbilt and Middlebury come to mind and I'm sure there are others.</p>
<p>I can't recall exactly what my D did to prepare, I'll ask her tonight and get back to you asap.</p>
<p>My D took the SAT as a sophomore and it never appeared on her later SAT scores (from Jr/Sr year) that were sent to colleges. Maybe that is the missing piece of the puzzle of the GCs advice? Or maybe we just experienced a fluke...?</p>
<p>Both of my sons tooks SAT II tests at the end of their <em>freshman</em> years in high school. LOTS of sophomores in their school take SAT IIs. It just depends on your coursework. </p>
<p>If you're taking the course relevant to the content of an SAT II and are doing well in it, you can try a few practice tests to get ready, and then take it. Unless the student is the type who freezes at/hates tests, have her do it now while the material is still fresh.</p>
<p>SBmom, I think CollegeBoard changed their policies re "hiding" scores in the last couple years - that might be what happened with your D.</p>
<p>Second the emotion of taking each SAT II as you finish the relevant coursework. DS did NOT do this and the results for, say, Chem were appropriately disappointing.</p>
<p>"Momnewtothis, order the SAT 2 (Subject test) practice test books from Amazon or wherever and have your child actually TAKE THE TEST under identical test settings...timed, quiet room, etc. Then score the test. ONLY if the score is a good one should she take the test for real."</p>
<p>That would be ideal. The problem is that we're just becoming aware of all this and she has to sign up for the test THIS Friday!! So my next question becomes "Can I sign her up and have her prepare and if she doesn't feel ready can she just not show up? I know it costs money, but I'd rather forfeit the money than stress out an already stress-out kid. Am I making sense?</p>
<p>Momnew, just talked to my D and she said she reviewed with a Kaplan book. She said it wasn't great, but there wasn't anything else at the time. Quiltguru's advice to have her take a few practice test to see how she does is a good one, though I know you're in a time crunch. </p>
<p>Yes, you can pay for the test and just not show up if she isn't ready. I know this for certain as my D thought she might do this and so I called up the College Board twice just to make sure. It makes sense as I'm sure kids don't make it to the test for a variety of reasons, like being sick that day. </p>
<p>You make perfect sense to me as I've been through the same sorts of questions trying to help my D plan for tests.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Both of my sons tooks SAT II tests at the end of their <em>freshman</em> years in high school. LOTS of sophomores in their school take SAT IIs. It just depends on your coursework. <<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Mootmom--wish my kid went to your high school. Many of our science subjects are taught over a multi-year period. For example, biology is taught over a THREE year period. And you can't take Bio 2 unless you have finished Chem 1 first. Older D took Bio 1 and Bio 2 and still had to study from the SAT2 Bio cram book to cover material she hadn't covered yet in her class that was covered by the test. Chemistry and physics are each covered over two years.</p>
<p>Momnewtothis, Yes, you can sign up and then change your mind. You just forfeit the money. That's why some kids are able to get in on standby on the day of the test. </p>
<p>As far as tutoring and intensive preparation for this is concerned, I recall that in the smaller companion guide to Fiske they quoted an anonymous admissions officer as stating on the record that extra tutoring <em>should</em> make no difference. Then he went off the record to say that a lot depends on the kid. ( IMO, it's quite an inequitable state of affairs, where those who can pay <em>sometimes</em> get the benefit, and part of the reason why kids from obviously disadvantaged backgrounds are sometimes given leeway on these stats) . </p>
<p>Said adcom continued on to say that tutoring or a prep course is not likely to make a huge difference for kids who are bright and self-motivated. On the other hand there are those who benefit by the fact that the tutoring helps them to focus on the task. Tutoring can also benefit the kind of kid who learns piece by piece and needs to ask lots of questions. </p>
<p>As far as when to take the Math IIC, my S took it at the end of the junior year and followed the plan that ellemenope outlined. That may or may not be right for everyone. There are both pros and cons of this timing as have been suggested. </p>
<p>Agree with everyone else that although you don't have to send the SAT II results to anyone when you take them, they will show up later when you send any other SATs or SAT IIs. What your GC may have been saying (since I see he was also discussing ACTs with you) is that if you take these tests and THEN decide to go the STRICTLY ACT route, so that no further SAT tests are ever sent, THEN your scores would not be seen. He should have been more clear to you on that!</p>
<p>ellemenope, You have just mentioned my biggest pet peeve of them all. Our HS is the same! Why they organize the curriculum like this is still beyond me! I suppose it has to do with the AP exams.</p>
<p>A few additional thoughts:
First, not only can your D sign up and then not show up if she's not ready, she also can take the math SAT II and if she thinks she didn't do well, cancel her score before she leaves the test center. You can read about score cancellation on the college board website. This might give her some comfort if it's a close call as to whether to take the test in June.
Second (and perhaps you're already familiar with the tests), keep in mind that there are 2 different levels of math subject tests. One level is more difficult substantively, but has an easier grading curve. I know you're pressed for time, but it probably would be worthwhile for her to look at both tests.
Third, fwiw - my kids' h.s. math teachers recommend that kids who are taking pre-calc or calc during their sophomore year take the math subject test at the end of their sophomore year rather than waiting until jr. year when the math they'll be studying gets increasingly removed from the type of math covered on the subject tests.
Good luck to your D!</p>
<p>Oops. Looks like you already knew about the 2 math levels. I'm still speaking "Class of 2009" application lingo when subject tests were called SAT IIs and there were Math 1C and 2C tests.</p>
<p>Thanks again all. This is an amazing forum. My d's hs guidance office should come here to learn something. (And we live in a "highly competitve town" ha!)
Okay, another question. D took the PSAT last Oct. as a freshman, just for practice. No preparation, just went in cold. Never even saw a test question before in her life. I don't even think she slept the night before. Scores: reading 76th percentile; math 84th percentile; writing 88th percentile. (Lousy testtaker - I know.) And math is her best subject! Question is, with intensive prep, how much better are kids expected to do on these things?</p>
<p>Part of the prep is to familiarze oneself with the format; the very fact that your D now has taken the PSAT once should help her raise her scores. She does not need to prepare intensively for it, and should not retake it before junior year. By then, just by virtue of having acquired more knowledge and being more familiar with the test, she should do much better. I do second those who said dig up the tips by Xiggi known here as the "Xiggi method." Xiggi is a college sophomore who has made it his mission to learn about the SAT and shares his knowledge with folks on CC. Basically, he advocates getting a copy of the 10RealSATs and prepping for it rather than attending costly testprep seminars.</p>