<p>Hey, it's either at extra year at St. Paul's, or paying an admissions counselor $35k.</p>
<p>Whoops, I forgot! It's probably both. ;)</p>
<p>Jack- what part of "he wanted to play basketball" don't you understand? What bothers you so much about this kid graduating from a top prep day school, where the athletic competition wasn't at the highest level, and doing a PG year at a school known for placing basketball players into top programs?<br>
When I say "academically solid" I mean that the PGs are not kids trying to get up to the minimum SAT or GPA which will let the play football for Florida State. To get admitted to the PG programs at MOST of the top prep schools, they need to be very qualified. Do you think the hockey PGs at Exeter or Culver got in with combined 700 on their SATs?</p>
<p>Jack, I'm a female student voluntarily taking a PG year. I graduated in May 2005 with enough credits, but I stayed another year to complete the IB Diploma. </p>
<p>Is this an academic "edge" I'm trying to gain? Perhaps. Especially since my local government gives scholarships only to A Level/IB Diploma students, which I need to attend college/uni. </p>
<p>But it's more of completing my high school education to the potential I know I have. It's the highest level my high school has, and I'd rather have 5 and a half years of math with IB Math Methods under my belt than 4 and a half years of IGCSE Math, start of A Level Maths and one year of IB M.M. There's a sense of completion. I'd rather have an IB Diploma than the individual IB Certificates, as the Extended Essay is said to prepare IB Diploma students the most for college.</p>
<p>However, I am already 19 and 1/2 years old; I'll be 20 in June 2006. I'll be older than most freshmen; I'm certainly older than the seniors at my school. Yes, I admit I do sometimes feel exasperated at the difference in maturity; living with them for 4 days for a "bonding/educational" senior school trip was not the most fun. I'm more than ready to meet new people, to escape the "he said, she said" atmosphere here, to be a little more honest and truthful with friends (being able to tell them I don't want to talk to them without them being hurt or being able to spend a weekend with another friend without the main "core" group of friends getting hurt), and learn from other/new people and their experiences. College is a much more diverse place than high school (or should be) and I'm eager to learn more about what life has offered to my peers. And what it'll offer us in the future.</p>
<p>It's expensive, definitely, but parents agreed with my choice. In fact, it was the only option that was available to us. Or rather...it was the only path we saw I could take. Heading to college after May 2005 wasn't an option or even thought of. (Saying goodbye to my senior '05 classmates was hard.)</p>
<p>Is UT not the same caliber as UNC? For an athlete, who are we to say? This boy is a URM who had lots of choices out of high school and even more during the PG year.</p>
<p>IzzyJ: Thanks for your post. I'm curious, why did you not take the IB curriculum before? I see that you are from Romania; perhaps your high school works differently than American high schools, with regard to IB.</p>
<p>"And, I'm sorry, but I do have to wonder how much more physically mature a football player, recruited to play football, right out of high school--with a full ride, at U of Texas--needs to get."</p>
<p>Jack, can't we assume that the parents -if not the coaches- understood what this particular student needed. Yes, even towering at 6-5 and 225 lbs, his best bet might be to stay in HS a bit longer to find his true passion. Because of his versatility -as well as academic achievements- he DID have many choices. However, he may have tried to avoid being pigeonholed in a position that did not suit him. . What if this student was recruited as a wide receiver but asked to bulk up to play defensive lineman or tight end to use his 4.6 speed? After all, could we not trust the judgment of past NFL/USFL father who sent two of his sons to UT and assume he knows a bit about the potential of his sons? Do you really think that the family was not aware that their son may be playing with the next NCAA national champion and catch passes from a future Heisman trophy winner? </p>
<p>In an age where many students are listening to the sirens' songs of early graduation or early jump to professional leagues, should we NOT applaud a family that decides to hold back a son, even he is among the best FIFTY players/recruits in the nation? With his potential, this decision might cost him millions of dollars but might also allow him to find his true avenue as a person. Further, the parents decided to send him to a very selective preparatory academy and not to some glorified summer camp where he could polish his rapper's abilities while bulking up. So, why all the second-guessing? </p>
<p>Lastly, as far as the public versus private school debate, it is undeniable that the situation might vary from one city to another. However, in this case, you would be hard pressed to find a public school in Dallas that could remotely rival academically with the private school that the football/basketball player attended in Texas. On the other hand, if football had been the only goal of this family, they would have had many better choices at public schools. Of course, you would have to know the family to also know THAT!</p>
<p>Hello xiggi. Where have you been? You don't call ... you don't write...so nice to finally hear from you. </p>
<p>Okay. Your scenario seems plausible, too. But, rest assured, whether he spends money to "find his true avenue as a person," (and, yeah, that always takes a truckload of money, huh?), or going to a "glorified summer camp" to... ah, what was it? Oh, yeah, to "polish his rapper's abilities while bulking up," (and I personally love that description and plan on using it in any future conversations), your scenario is quite definitely, a bit of "second guessing," as well. So...what IS with all that second-guessing?</p>
<p>And, if you read my earlier post, I absolutely said that public schools across this country vary greatly, as do many private schools. My point was simply to illuminate, that not all public schools fall into the category of what the poster to whom I was initially responding, described, nor what you have just described in Dallas. Our own experience, as I stated earlier, has been very very different.</p>
<p>jack: I live in Romania but I'm an Asian citizen. I previously attended a school in Asia that offered only A Levels. Then I moved here, attending the only International school offering IB in Romania. The school which offered A Levels did not have A Level Chemistry, which I needed. <em>shrug</em> So I'm staying a PG year out of necessity (as my parents and I view it).</p>
<p>Since I've never attended any high schools/pre-u college where the students were recruited, (I believe international college recruits are a rarity?), I can't state any opinion on that reason for staying a PG year. But I do think that if the child wants to stay a PG year, it should be more than purely athletic reasons, but also for academic reasons (my opinion is athletes should have as impressive/respectable application packet as non-athletes).</p>
<p>If someone wanted to stay a PG year just to add a dollop of AP's on their transcripts and are involved only in the school community because it's expected and being their heart is in it, I would hope the admissions committees see through this!</p>
<p>A PG year and a gap year differ only in that during the PG year one is still involved in high school/studies, right? During a gap year, that person is free to do as he/she likes, but it should be productive...? (work, creative endeavours, community service, helping sickly relatives) Both the PG and gap year are after a graduation, right?</p>
<p>I never knew about the PG option until a couple of years ago when I offhandedly remarked to a high school counselor at the end of S's senior year of high school, "Gee, son has matured so much this year, he's almost there, if only there were a fifth year of high school . . ." and she said, "Well, actually there is . . ." If we had the $$ and a little knowledge prior, maybe we would have considered it. I had no idea, really. LOL, so many things I didn't know. But, OTOH, my son couldn't wait to be done with high school, so then again, maybe it's only an option for a very few kids anyway, those with very specific college goals, $$ or not. Some kids are going to be pretty well polished before they arrive at college. Others, well, you just send them off, rough edges and all and hope for the best . . .</p>
<p>We got some mail the other day for United World Colleges, a two year "pre-college IB program" program that looked interesting--my daughter is already a junior in high school, so IF she would have been interested, and IF she had been accepted, it would have been an extra year of high school. The very idea of going to high school for another year and not graduating from her current high school she rejected out of hand. </p>
<p>The attractive thing about the United World Colleges to me is that it is free. I had never heard of it before, but it sounds kind of neat, and worth going to an extra year of high school for the right kind of kid. Anyone here with any knowledge/experience of this program?</p>
<p>Anyway, my daughter says she wants to spend a year in Germany after graduation from her high school next year. It may be that she would go to a German high school for a year--I don't know. I guess if she did, it would sort of be like a PG year, though I hadn't really thought of it that way, more like a gap year. I don't know if that will pan out, you know the plans made in this process of getting them through high school and into college are highly subject to change.</p>
<p>Maybe it seems like overkill to me for some of these kids to spend an extra year in highschool, but I don't see any reason to deny them the choice/opportunity if that's what they want and are able to do.</p>
<p>momofwc: Sorry I missed your earlier post. I have no problem with "doing a PG year at a school known for placing basketball players into top programs." Yeah, that's how I saw it, too.</p>
<p>And to answer your other question, No, UT is not the same caliber as UNC. And, as I'm sure you are aware, UNC-CH is an extremely difficult entry for an out-of-state student.</p>
<p>MomofWC: To answer your other question, I have never entertained the question of how hockey PG's (or anyone else) get into Culver or Exeter. But, thinking about it now, I am quite sure they could not get in with a combined 700 on their SAT's. And I never suggested that.</p>
<p>
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I think that there is a big difference between having a kid with a July birthday repeat kindergarten and having a student who is clearly ready for college attend an elite boarding school for a PG year.
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</p>
<p>sjmom2329~ The above, and everything else you said in that post, was dead on.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have no problem with people doing this. It's their money, after all. I just wish people would be honest about why they're doing it. Wouldn't that be refreshing?
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jack~ITA, and yes, it would be refreshing! ~berurah</p>
<p>Xiggi- Thanks. I forgot you probably knew so much about the KT boys. One of the highlights of the younger KT's PG year last year was when my son's 125 pound wrestler-roommate took KT down horsing around in the dorm!</p>
<p>"And to answer your other question, No, UT is not the same caliber as UNC. And, as I'm sure you are aware, UNC-CH is an extremely difficult entry for an out-of-state student."</p>
<p>Jack, while I believe that you could find some areas in which UNC surpasses UT-Austin -unless your refer to one of the "others UT"- the out-of-state situation is not one of them. In the past years, the admission for out-of-staters has been extremely difficult in Austin. A quick check on the facts of both schools would reveal that Chapel Hill has 18% of OOS while Austin barely breaks the 5% mark. </p>
<p>As far as a comparison of the "caliber" of the school, it would be rather complex exercise as the schools seem to have very different admission scenarios/crtiteria, and may even have different missions. In Texas, the flagship universities provide automatic admission to ALL students ranked in the top 10% of their schools without discrimination for poorer, less competitive or racially unintegrated districts. Further, very large schools such as UT-Austin or ASU have become schools within schools by being forced to further separate the students into general population and honor programs that have additional admission requirements. As a result, the schools have a wide range in competitiveness among departments. In this regard, it would absolutely normal to see both UNC and UT-Austin having departments that are not up to the "caliber" of the other. For instance, I do not believe UT-Austin to have anything that comes close to the Morehead Scholar program, but Chapel Hill would probably spend a small fortune to buy the reputation of the accounting or communication programs enjoyed by UT. </p>
<p>To each its own. :)</p>
<p>xiggi: I suspect that if you start deconstructing individual academic departments, honor programs, etc. among the thousands of schools out there....well....I suppose you could have a debate about the relative merit of any two schools. </p>
<p>However, as I stated before, UT is not the same caliber as UNC-CH. Period. And, of course, many people would not want to attend a school that has something around 38,000 undergraduates, such as at Texas, compared to 16,000 at UNC. And most definitely, not the majority of folks on CC, who tend to prefer the small LAC, as you know. And, yes, I am quite sure UT does not have "anything that comes close to the Morehead Scholar program" and most definitely not the Robertson Scholar Program. </p>
<p>On another note, I gathered that the kid who rejected the full ride at UTexas to turn around and accept UNC-CH's offer the following year, was (or his family is) based in Texas, though that may be incorrect. At any rate, HE clearly saw a difference between the 2 schools. :)</p>
<p>And certainly, to each his own :)</p>
<p>That's why there are umpteen schools out there; one has a choice--as did the kid who chose UNC instead of UT :)</p>
<p>Jack- the recruited athlete wanted to try for a basketball slot. Texas was NOT offering him that, and he wanted to forge a different path from his father and brothers. I think we have made that clear. I seriously doubt that the relative academics of UNC and Texas were a big factor. UT is an amazing school with Plan II and Business Honors which are as competitive as almost any programs in the country. UT was not the only school recruiting this kid in high school. UNC was not the only school recruiting him during his PG year. UNC is a wonderful university, but I know many who would choose UT over it, including my son.
You seem to have a narrow view of things.</p>
<p>"That's why there are umpteen schools out there; one has a choice--as did the kid who chose UNC instead of UT"</p>
<p>Isn't it all a matter of individual choices? Some of us select schools based on best fit over implied reputation. Some of us have to make choices based on financial situations. </p>
<p>I recognized one program of UNC; it would not been that hard to accept the olive tree branch instead of hitting me on the head with it. No school is perfect. Is UNC the best school in its own state for a student interested in nuclear engineering? See how easily the waters murky up! </p>
<p>I know students who turned down Yale to attend UNC-Chapel Hill. I know students who turned down a HPS school to attend UT in Dallas. I also know students who have attended UNC but would have had serious problems in being admitted at UT. However, all anedoctal evidence is just that: a series of individual situations and choices. UNC offers a great education to North Carolinians. UT-Texas offers a great education to Texans. Most people are not interested to ascertain the differences between them. My hat off to you if you can pinpoint those differences without hesitation.</p>
<p>Momofwc: No, I don't have a narrow vision; in fact,much of what you have said in your earlier posts supported my feeling about PG's spending an extra year in prep school--which is what this thread is all about, no? Go back and re-read your own posts. And, by the way, I find it a little sad that the kid you are speaking about--that you "seriously doubt the relative academics" of either school were a "big factor" in his decision of where to attend college. Hmm... that certainly says a lot.</p>
<p>Obviously, my opinion is simply that. And your's is your own. But you somehow view yourself as having a broader vision? </p>
<p>xiggi: Yes, we all have anecdotal evidence. I could give you a truckload. I think I said in my earlier post, if you want to deconstruct specific departments and programs among differerent universities, that's fine. Everyone should. And I will say it one more time, "That's why there are umpteen schools out there; one has a choice, as did the kid who chose UNC over UT." (And, despite what Momofwc says about him wanting to be recruited for basketball, I do believe he was recruited for football there, too, wasn't he?) But, again, that really is beside the point. </p>
<p>And let's get real, here, xiggi. You offering an olive branch? Who are you kidding? You have an interesting vision of yourself.</p>
<p>Jack, again you manipulate what others say to fit your own agenda. Both UNC and UT are just fine academically for a young man who has a good chance at a professional sports career. Most recruits are not in that category- this kid is. And- basketball IS an option for him at UNC.
I guess you are saying that there is no value to a PG year for anyone. That is a stupid position, but since you obviously have no experience with PG programs I guess we can't expect much different from you. I know two PGs at my son's school who finished high school at emotional growth schools. Since the EG schools are year-round, the kids are a little young. The PG year gives them a chance to ease back into the "real world" after the restrictiveness of the EG school before being given the total freedom of college. Is this a bad thing?<br>
Yes, I do think my vision is broader than yours since I know a lot more about the subject. While my son is not a PG, he has done 5 years of high school. That is not what we had anticipated, but his path through school was not a smooth one, and this is the way it all turned out. As a result, he has incredible choices for college both as a result of his athletics and his academics. He also got to spend last year and this year in an environment which is the perfect mix of superior academics, a nurturing community and strong athletics in his sport and several others.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild--tks for posting. I think it is great hearing from a parent whose child has actually done this. Glad it has worked out well for your son.</p>