<p>"And let's get real, here, xiggi. You offering an olive branch? Who are you kidding? You have an interesting vision of yourself."</p>
<p>You are starting to make me regret my otherwise conciliatory tone. And as you say so well ... Period!</p>
<p>One of my young friends (she is a sophomore at Trinity College in Hartford, I am a contemporary of her parents), tells me that the students she knows at Trinity that attended prep school for either their entire high school career or just a post-graduate year have a much easier transition to the college level academic load than the kids coming out of public high school. </p>
<p>I can see the growth in my son in just the first few weeks of his PG year. It's been a bit of a rocky start, but he's getting the hang of it as he learns about working hard rather than slipping through with a B. Since he will be starting college at one of the Ivies <em>and</em> playing a top ranked D1 team sport, his PG year is going to set him up for those anticipated demands.</p>
<p>It's one of those much heralded gap years, a transition year, and a real growth year. As the NCAA ad says, he's one of those college student athletes that will be going pro in something other than sports -- even though he is one of the top 10 recruits (in his sport, at his position) in the country. He needs to hit the ground running at college, and this PG year will help him be ready.</p>
<p>momofwc: I hesitate even responding to you, but yes, you are correct that I have my own ideas about what an extra year at a prep school for a kid who has not done very well academically (nor emotionally? EG?) throughout high school might do for him. Clearly, the originator of this thread had his own ideas, too, as did the person who wrote the original article in the NY Times education supplement. </p>
<p>And you "guess" at what I am saying, and then refer to what you think I might be saying as merely a "stupid position." Yes, you definitely have a broad and accepting vision, for sure. </p>
<p>I have never "twisted" anything you have said to suit my own agenda. Again, go back and re-read your own posts and mine. I've merely quoted you and repeated what you've said. </p>
<p>And, yes, you are absolutely correct in that I have no personal experience with PG programs. That, and an EG year, is something we found completely unnecessary. In fact, it never would have entered my mind. Many students, believe it or not, do incredibly well throughout their entire school career, and their respective schools provide a solid foundation for them--on many levels-- with no need for an extra year of high school. But, yes, that is simply our experience.</p>
<p>Well, Jack, for the many families out there who do not have perfect kids who have had a flawless high school experience, a PG year (OR, repeating a year if a school switch is made) is a wonderful option. My perception is that you are incredibly judgemental and think a PG year is a sign of a totally flawed "loser" kid. My son never struggled academically and was always a top student, but he did have some behavior issues and got kicked out of a school several years ago. Perhaps this makes him totally flawed and undeserving of a spot at a highly selective college. It does not appear that the colleges see it that way, fortunately. Yep-there are also kids who have struggled with emotional or substance issues and lost some time to these struggles. Is there really a problem with them re-grouping in a PG or repeat year and maximizing their options for college? I hope for the sake of your kids that they never mess up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
for the many families out there who do not have perfect kids who have had a flawless high school experience, a PG year (OR, repeating a year if a school switch is made) is a wonderful option.
[/quote]
MOWC, it's wonderful that you were able to provide your son with this opportunity. For kids who have lost ground in some way through the HS years, I love to see them getting a second chance. Many of us don't always get everything right the first time -- just because someone takes the long way around doesn't mean the journey was wasted.</p>
<p>The article that started this thread, however, does not seem to be about the kind of kids you mentioned. It's more about families using the PG year to meet a strategic goal -- Ivy or bust. Once again, although that's not a strategy I would consider, that is their choice. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm just curious about how that plays out in the admissions arena.</p>
<p>Once again, thank you for sharing your experience and insight. It's not easy getting any of these kids through 'teenagerhood' -- I think we all deserve a medal, or at least a lengthy cruise (with massages and cocktails!), when it's all done.</p>
<p>Whether b/c of flawed hs experience or presonal growth and maturity or to enhance one's chances of entering the Ivies or to gain an athletic advantage, most families cannot afford the PG year. This provides an advantage to wealthier families. </p>
<p>Well, surprise, surprise - - $$ gives you more options. Yes, the meritocricy is, increasingly a myth (or we are more aware of the myth). But, when it comes to our children we seek every possible advantage - - even those others may view as unfair. </p>
<p>(And what is "fair" anyway? Should the principal assign the best teacher to the gifted class or to the remedial class? Neither decision would be objectively "wrong," in fact, either decision advances a laudable objective. But either decision will spawn a group of angry parents crying "foul.")</p>
<p>Thanks, sjmom. It has been an interesting journey with my two very different kids. We were fortunate that we could afford private school, including the extra year for our son, for both of our kids. It was the right thing for our kids and our family- even though it meant them "leaving the nest" far sooner than we expected. I don't think most of the PGs at my son's school wind up at the Ivys, except for one or two wrestlers, maybe. They do wind up at a school which is a great fit, though.</p>
<p>(And what is "fair" anyway? Should the principal assign the best teacher to the gifted class or to the remedial class? Neither decision would be objectively "wrong," in fact, either decision advances a laudable objective. But either decision will spawn a group of angry parents crying "foul.")</p>
<p>In this instance however- generally you find the most experienced teachers in the gifted classrooms and the least experienced teaching lower income /more challenged students
in our district- wealthy neighborhoods raise money for supplies- classroom support even teacher positions while poorer neighborhoods have trouble even getting people to attend PTA meetings
But it is true that it is only one example- of how students aren't coming from equal playing fields.
Students whose parents have Ph.ds in math and run math games on weekends, or have parents who didn't graduate from high school and don't have it as a priority.
Students who have traveled abroad enough to have rudimentary knowledge of another language- even if they didn't take it in school- which they do- or a student that no one ever encourages to take college prep courses because they don't consider college an option.
Lots of disparity- but we need to keep knocking down the barriers- education benefits everyone- whether they are 18 when they begin college or 20- does it really matter?</p>
<p>Both ends of the economic spectrum have some advantage, it's those in the middle that don't have quite enough to provide that extra year, or hire a private consultant, but have too much for any substantial financial aid that are hurting.</p>
<p>Momofwc: One last post here. Your perception is your perception. And I am not responsible for what you see. </p>
<p>And as pointed out above, the original article (if you read it), and the basis of this thread, is really touching on something else entirely. But I do agree with you, that students who attend an elite prep school for yet another year of high school--for whatever reasons-- just might "maximize their options for college" or secure a "spot at a highly selective school." (your words). Yes, absolutely, and I think that's getting closer to the point of the original article.</p>
<p>Kids have been doing gap years for a long, long time. And, frankly, I don't see how this situation is too different than a gap year. There are kids who do gap years by working to earn money they desperately need to attend school (I did this for 10 months before starting college); but there are also plenty of kids from well-off families who have the luxury of choice. They may do all kinds of things in their gap year--study abroad, research internships, going off and doing volunteer work in an interesting location. Those things are going to be pluses on an application, but they are definitely not cheap!</p>
<p>If truth be told, my husband was hoping our son would take a gap year in Israel, working on a kibbutz or studying at a yeshiva. It did cross our heads that such an experience could make son's applications more interesting, although this wasn't the main reason why we wanted to encourage this. However, son had different ideas, and is now applying to a too-long list of schools!</p>
<p>The basic dilemma is that this society is organized so that some folk have more resources than others. Let's be honest here. Why are all these kids scrambling to get into the very best schools they can? Yes, there are students who truly love learning for learning's sake. I was one of these crazy types and ended up with a doctorate in medieval studies. Most students want to go to college, however, so they can eventually get a very well-paying job. Should we really look down our noses at those people who have the resources to position their child in the most advantageous way? I am going to use what resources I have to help my children, and I admire other parents for doing the same, whatever their income level might be. Ideally, we should all be trying to help our children find fulfillment. And for some kids a program of pg study may be the just the thing to do that. </p>
<p>The problem is not the parents. The problem is the fact that our society condones and encourages large discrepencies in terms of the accumulation of wealth. If we are uncomfortable with that inequality, we need to work to change society.....not question what an individual parent does with the resources that he or she has.</p>
<p>Both ends of the economic spectrum have some advantage, it's those in the middle that don't have quite enough to provide that extra year, or hire a private consultant, but have too much for any substantial financial aid that are hurting.</p>
<p>I disagree with this
it is true that brilliant students who qualify for Pell grants should get good aid at top schools- however- for those students to be brillant and to be at a place where they could succeed at a top school- they likely have had just the right support- academic/personal/economic to do so- which isn't common.</p>
<p>We are middle income- a tad more than the average annual income.
There are opportunities for students even middle income to take a gap year.My daughter volunteered with Americorps/CityYear, a program that recent presidents have supported at least verbally.</p>
<p>She lived at home- received a living stipend and earned a education credit that she can apply to her loans- plus I am convinced that it made her more interesting to the colleges- even though that didn't even cross our mind beforehand.
We didn't hire a consultant- and neither one of us have attended college- but have to love Google!</p>
<p>Taking a planned year off- doesn't have to cost anything- or can cost very little- you don't need a planned consultant- libraries and the internet are great resources-
I think many kids could benefit from a year off- but some parents/kids seem to be afraid if they take a year off- they will get off track.
We are already planning for my 10th grader to take a year off- she wants to spend it in Australia- but I may be able to sway her with working at a stable in Ireland. :)
<a href="http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0307/gapyear.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0307/gapyear.shtml</a></p>
<p>Yes, I see no problem with gap years. In fact, our country might be better for it, if all graduating high school seniors were, perhaps, required to take a year to help others (community service of some type on a local or broader level?). Americorps is a great example. I have to admit, I was extremely impressed with the Tulane student(s) mentioned on this board, who-- under difficult circumstances-- chose to help others a lot less fortunate, resulting in a gap (semester or year?) for them. I have no doubt this was a wonderful education for them and helped others in the process. And I agree with emeraldkity; a gap year does not have to cost a lot of money. People do have choices and options.</p>
<p>While I disagree w/ Cami regarding similarities b/w taking a year off to earn money "desperately" needed to attend school and parents shelling-out $35K for a PG year in the hopes of getting their offspring into a top tier school, I agree w/ her that there's nothing wrong w/ a parent who has an extra pile of $ lying around to spend it on a PG year. </p>
<p>Cami, you weren't urging your son to spend a year on the kibbutz to beef-up his college application - - if that's a by product or collateral consequence, lucky you. PG years, however, are often for the express purpose of enhancing the application (whether it's a first-time app or a second attempt). </p>
<p>Also, I believe, the PG programs lack the eco and racial diversity of the prep schools themselves and are viewed as a cash cow. Still, If I had a pile of $, it would be my $ and I'd be entitled to spend it on a PG year or anything else (legal) that struck my fancy.</p>
<p>I don't the PG year as very diff than paying for SAT tutors, hiring admissions consultants applying ED (b/c you don't need fin aid), calling a $5k summer trip where you spent half your time on the beach "community service," or taking a sabbatical in Nebraska the year that your kids (whose grades and test scored would be below-average back home in CT) apply to college. (Yes, I know a teacher who did this - - and it worked, both kids attended Ivies.) Each is designed to give Junior every possible advantage. And advantage is always at someone else's expense; if that makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it (PG year, SAT tutor, sabbatical, etc.)</p>
<p>Everybody's looking for a hook and if you can buy one, good for you. Just don't pretend it's anything other than than.</p>
<p>My daughter has terrific grades and great activities, but here SATs were just OK, like 1400. She is going to Notre Dame now. What are her chances of getting into Stanford and what can she do to improve them?</p>
<p>nyc--Nebraska as a hook. Hmmm. That could be affordable, too!</p>
<p>Nope. Kids would kill me if I made them move to Nebraska for a year.</p>
<p>"just OK, like 1400."</p>
<p>Oh Pleeeeze...</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant 1300</p>
<p>I'll do anything for my kids but I won't move to Nebraska LOL. This thread has been a very interesting read and my best summation would be "to each his own".</p>