Anti-Homosexuality is NOT Christian

<p>lealdragon:</p>

<p>"Sorry for the misunderstanding."</p>

<p>It's ok. I guess that I wasn't being really clear. </p>

<p>"I guess I have a hard time understanding how anyone can feel attracted to a religion that condemns people. A God like that doesn't sound very nice."</p>

<p>It truly is a miracle. That's the thing about being born again, there's no random "attraction" that makes you decide to be a Christian. Jesus miraculously enters your life and brings you to him and he solves all of your problems and everything in your life becomes complete. And God is very, very, very nice. He forgives so many sins!! :) If you genuinely want to know how I am "attracted" to Christianity so to speak, PM me lealdragon, I can tell you my story (I was only born again about 1.5 years ago). You might learn something neat.</p>

<p>All of the best.</p>

<p>"but what does that mean? because they mention it a lot means it only had good denotations in the past? I'm telling you what the Church did, and what marriage really meant, not what one book decrees."</p>

<p>The Bible glorifies marriage in more ways than one. If you want quotes, I can plaster this board with them. As far as connotations of the past, I believe that you are referring to the Catholic Church as well as non-Christian marriages. Regardless, whatever the secular human does to marriage, it will still remain sacred to some.</p>

<p>"And God is very, very, very nice. "</p>

<p>Well, I think so too. I pray to God every day, and sometimes I even think God answers my prayers! </p>

<p>"He forgives so many sins!"</p>

<p>Except, according to born-again Christians, the sin of not being born-again! That is unforgiveable, right? They burn in 'hell' right?</p>

<p>I believe in a God so loving that he would not send ANY of his children to suffer forever. He might make them pay for their sins for a few thousand years, to teach them a lesson and rehabilitate them, but he is patient and has all the time in the world...er...universe.</p>

<p>Thanks for the invitation. I know that it was sent with love and joy, and I appreciate it. Truly, I do have a relationship with God. Christians often have a hard time accepting that non-Christians can know God, but we actually do. Contrary to Christian beliefs, Christians do not have a monopoly on God.</p>

<p>"Christians do not have a monopoly on God."</p>

<p>Very funny :). I know that God pays attention to all of His children, yes.</p>

<p>"Except, according to born-again Christians, the sin of not being born-again! That is unforgiveable, right? They burn in 'hell' right?"</p>

<p>Not being born again is not a "sin" per se. Being born again means, among other things, that you come to have ultimate faith in Christ. When you do, you believe the Bible when it says, those without faith are lost. Hence, yes, according to the Bible, those who are not born again do not have true faith, and no will not be saved. However, this is for God to decide during the end times. I cannot say "oh hey, joe, you're not going to Heaven!" That's what I meant when I said that no born again Christian would say something like that to you. They might believe it, but they would not be like "you're going to HEllllll bwahahhaha." That's just mean and judgemental. They would try to save you by asking you questions and trying to draw you closer to God. Not draw you away from Him and threaten you with frightful thoughts of Hell. God Judges those who are lost and those who are saved, according to how they lived. If you are lost, then you are punished based upon how you behaved during your life. If you were "really bad," then you get a worse punishment. On the flip side, those who are saved receive "crowns" based upon how good they were (how well they followed the Word). So there are certain degrees of punishment and reward after this life. (this is all according to the Bible, yes, I'm not trying to make you believe this, I'm just telling you what I believe)</p>

<p>Anyhow, as I said, if you have any more questions please send them my way. I would love to answer any of them, privately or on this thread.</p>

<p>Thanks, same. I respect your beliefs, and thanks for not trying to 'push' them on me. I am well familiar with such beliefs because I actually was a born-again Christian for 3 years. Although I retained a strong faith in God, I now believe in getting guidance from the Living Spirit, rather than a book. I simply do not accept that some book written by humans is the infallible word of God. Just my belief, ok!</p>

<p>I guess there is some similarity in what you and I believe. I believe in cause-and-effect (karma). The difference is that we are eternal beings and, while some lifetimes may seem hellish, they don't last forever. God is too merciful and loving to send even 1 person to eternal suffering. </p>

<p>That's just my view of God. I have to say that I have a hard time understanding why Christians are so insistent on believing some book that paints God in such a cruel way. There is no way anyone can ever convince me that they believe in a loving God when they readily admit that this God would inflict such intense and permanent punishment on people. Even us mere humans are more merciful than that - not too many criminals get stuck in jail forever, or get executed. I would think that God would be more merciful than we are.</p>

<p>I know you are just telling me what you believe the bible to say. And I am offering my belief that the very fact it says such a thing proves it can't be infallible. The God I know is more loving than that. God has opened my heart to more love and compassion, so if I could not send ANYONE, not even a mass murderer, to suffer FOREVER with no chance of rehabilitation (once they're in 'hell') then how could God???</p>

<p>Thanks for the respectful discussion!</p>

<p>Well to answer your question, even a mass murderer could easily go to Heaven. Many criminals accept Jesus in prison before their death and if they truly ask repentance, then they are welcomed into the Kingdom of God.</p>

<p>Anyhow, I thank you too for the respectful discussion! </p>

<p>All of the best.</p>

<p>"accept Jesus in prison before their death"</p>

<p>That's exactly my point. What about the ones who don't? Maybe they are still too caught up in their rage, whatever. Many of them came from abusive families and just continued a cycle of violence.</p>

<p>As heinous as these people are, I believe in the power of love. It probably wouldn't happen overnight, but I believe some of these horrible people could change, given enough time and love. It might take a few lifetimes, but all things are possible with God.</p>

<p>Yet, Christians believe they go to 'hell.' I, a mere human, would have compassion for these people and be patient thru milennia to save them, but God would just send them to burn forever?</p>

<p>Do you see my point? Not a very nice God at all!</p>

<p>I believe that God sends no one to Hell. Upon death, people review their lives in front of the Lord, and judging whether or not they are worthy to enter eternal life with Him, they choose Heaven (or, when healing is needed before entering, Purgatory) or Hell on their own. </p>

<p>I think the vast majority of souls end up in Purgatory, and eventually get to Heaven when they're ready.</p>

<p>Fides, that is actually similar in concept to what I believe. Whether the soul continues its healing process in Purgatory or in another lifetime on Earth, is inconsequential. The concept is the same. Both allow the soul more time to heal, as opposed to the born-again belief that if someone didn't make the right decision in this one lifetime, they must burn forever. My belief is that the wheel of karma finally stops when the soul reaches a state of union with God ('heaven'). So, in essence, we are in agreement.</p>

<p>Yes, marriage is the Bible a lot.</p>

<p>Usually it is polygamous marriage.
Sometimes it is marriage with women taken as booty of war.</p>

<p>So is this the "traditional marriage" which must be defended?</p>

<p>"I believe that God sends no one to Hell. Upon death, people review their lives in front of the Lord, and judging whether or not they are worthy to enter eternal life with Him, they choose Heaven (or, when healing is needed before entering, Purgatory) or Hell on their own. </p>

<p>I think the vast majority of souls end up in Purgatory, and eventually get to Heaven when they're ready."</p>

<p>what was the point of jesus death then?</p>

<p>Yeah, good question!</p>

<p>Indeed. The Magisterium of the Church can explain it far better than I (this can get very deep theologically). From the *Catechism of the Catholic Church<a href="nn.%20599%20to%20623">/i</a>:</p>

<p>“Jesus' violent death was not the result of chance in an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances, but is part of the mystery of God's plan, as St. Peter explains to the Jews of Jerusalem in his first sermon on Pentecost: **`This Jesus [was] delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God.'/B This Biblical language does not mean that those who handed Him over were merely passive players in a scenario written in advance by God.

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore He establishes His eternal plan of predestination', He includes in it each person's free response to His grace: **In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.'/B For the sake of accomplishing His plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.

“The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of **the righteous one, my Servant'** (Isaiah 53:11) as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin. Citing a confession of faith that he himself had **received'**, St. Paul professes that **`Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures.'<a href="1%20Cor%2015:3">/B</a> In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfills Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant. Indeed Jesus Himself explained the meaning of His life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant. (cf. Mt 20:28.) After His Resurrection He gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles. </p> <p>“Consequently, St. Peter can formulate the apostolic faith in the divine plan of salvation in this way: **<code>You were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers... with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.'** (1 Peter 1:18-20.) Man's sins, following the original sin, are punishable by death. By sending His own Son in the form of a slave, in the form of a fallen humanity, on account of sin, God **</code>made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.'<a href="2.%20Co%205:21.">/B</a> </p> <p>“After agreeing to baptize Him along with the sinners, John the Baptist looked at Jesus and pointed Him out as the **`Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world'/B. By doing so, he reveals that Jesus is at the same time the suffering Servant who silently allows Himself to be led to the slaughter and who bears the sin of the multitudes, and also the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel's redemption at the first Passover. Christ's whole life expresses His mission: **“to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”/B

“By embracing in His human heart the Father's love for men, Jesus **loved them to the end'** (John 13:1), for **greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.'/B In suffering and death His humanity became the free and perfect instrument of His divine love which desires the salvation of men. Indeed, out of love for His Father and for men, whom the Father wants to save, Jesus freely accepted His Passion and death: **`No one takes [My life] from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord.'<a href="John%2010:18.">/B</a> Hence the sovereign freedom of God's Son as He went out to His death. </p> <p>“Jesus gave the supreme expression of His free offering of Himself at the meal shared with the twelve Apostles **<code>on the night He was betrayed'** (1 Co 11:23). On the eve of His Passion, while still free, Jesus transformed this Last Supper with the apostles into the memorial of His voluntary offering to the Father for the salvation of men: **</code>This is My body which is given for you.'<a href="Luke%2022:19.">/B</a> **`This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'/B

“The Eucharist that Christ institutes at that moment will be the memorial of His sacrifice. Jesus includes the apostles in His own offering and bids them to perpetuate it. By doing so, the Lord institutes His apostles as priests of the New Covenant: **`For their sakes I sanctify Myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth.'<a href="John%2017:19.">/B</a> </p>

<p>“Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through <code>the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world' (John 1:19), and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the </code>blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.' </p>

<p>“This sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices. First, it is a gift from God the Father Himself, for the Father handed His Son over to sinners in order to reconcile us with Himself. At the same time it is the offering of the Son of God made man, who in freedom and love offered His life to His Father through the Holy Spirit in reparation for our disobedience. </p>

<p>“<code>For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous.' (Rm 5:19.) By His obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who </code>makes Himself an offering for sin', when <code>He bore the sin of many', and who </code>shall make many to be accounted righteous', for **`He shall bear their iniquities'<a href="Is%2053:10-12">/B</a>. Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father. </p>

<p>“It is love <code>to the end' (John 13:1) that confers on Christ's sacrifice its value as redemption and reparation, as atonement and satisfaction. He knew and loved us all when He offered His life. Now **</code>the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.'<a href="2%20Co%205:14.">/B</a> No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all. The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons, and constitutes Himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible His redemptive sacrifice for all.”</p>

<p>I am content to let passively religious people find strength, solace, and purpose im god when they lack the strength and ability to find it on their own. </p>

<p>However there are far to many religious people who base far to many of their actions on their religion and irrational beliefs. Religious people that condemn others for percieved sin, who take violent action against those that those that lack their faith, who exploit the faith of others and twist religious documents to suit their own beliefs CANNOT be tolerated. Far to long have they hid behind the supposed virtue of faith.<br>
I can stand a personal acknowledgement of a god or gods, but not the bigoted self rightousness of mainstream Christianity.</p>