Anxious mum: Which one to choose: Mcgill/ Connecticut college

<p>A couple of further thoughts. I think McGill is likely better known in the US than Connecticut College. I’d be willing to bet that outside of the Northeast, if you told most people Conn College, they’d think you were talking about UConn. So, I’d guess that McGill wins on US as well as international reputation. We are a dual US/Canadian family and virtually all of my bright nieces/nephews/cousins/brothers-in-law on the Canadian side have gone to/go to McGill. They all love it despite the fact that it is a big, relatively impersonal school. They’ve all done quite well. One is doing his PhD at MIT in genomics (probably best department in the world) after a stint at Oxford. Another is studying molecular bio at U of Toronto and she turned down good offers from strong US schools. Another is a professor at U of Toronto after doing a post-doc at Carnegie-Mellon. One studied at Oxford and works at Lazard (extremely high-end mergers & acquisitions-focused investment bank) – he was one of 8 offered a position out of 3000 applicants. Another is a Dean at a Canadian university after getting his PhD at an Ivy. That’s just a subset, but typically all have done well and most have ended up in Canada, typically turning down US and other offers because they prefer Canada.</p>

<p>One other likely difference is that Conn College is likely to be more homogenous from an intellectual and demographic standpoint. McGill draws from all over Canada and as Canada’s most highly regarded school (although within Canada, people will tell you certain other schools are just as good or better) will attract some of the brightest kids in Canada. Conn College will be different. Super bright kids who apply to Conn College may also apply to Amherst/Williams or Ivies and if they get in will likely go elsewhere. So the high end of the distribution is likely to be skimmed off at Conn College but much less so at McGill – many Canadians don’t even think of applying to schools in the US for undergraduate years. Given that plus the much larger class, the upper end of the distribution at McGill is likely to have more super bright kids than the upper end of the distribution for Conn College (both in absolute numbers and as a proportion of the student body). Just given the large numbers, it is possible that the lower end of the tail at McGill has weaker kids than at Conn College but I don’t have any insight or data to validate that. I don’t think it is clear that Conn College gets the nod on hiring. Fom a hiring standpoint, I as an employer might be more likely to look at a kid from McGill than a kid from Conn College because of the greater chance that I’d find someone outstanding.</p>

<p>On the demographic side, I suspect that McGill as a public school with relatively low tuition is going to be much more broadly representative of the Canadian population. How is Conn College with respect to diversity. As a small NE LAC that isn’t well-enough endowed to be need-blind or loan-free, I suspect it is more upper middle-class in its student body. According to the following post (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/bucknell-university/478255-not-need-blind.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/bucknell-university/478255-not-need-blind.html&lt;/a&gt;), it had among the lowest percentage of Pell Grant recipients. Plus, Conn College likely draws a disproportionate share of its student body from the Northeast.</p>

<p>Greater academic and social homogeneity will work better for some kids and worse for others. What’s better for your son is for you and him to decide.</p>

<p>So, on a lot of grounds, McGill tips on the plus side. But, a small LAC can offer a terrific education for many kids. Professors actually talk to you and you don’t have to watch the lectures on video screens because the classes are too big. One relative in her first semester at McGill never really realized she had to go to some kind of section and the TA didn’t try to contact her. [While reasonably bright, she is stunningly attractive and succeeded in HS in large part because she is just so good to look at. That doesn’t work if you don’t even go to the section. She’s figured out that, while looks will still get her free drinks and dinner and invites to the VIP sections of clubs, they won’t help on grades in big lecture courses and she’s responded by doing the work and doing well]. I don’t fault the school; it was her responsibility to read the syllabi and understand the requirements, but I suspect at Conn College, someone would have contacted her. Professors at small LACs care about teaching. Less true at research universities (the incentives are different and the professors self-select). </p>

<p>On the flip side, in some fields like sciences, McGill is mid-way between the US and English style universities. You self-select into science much earlier and according to one relative, a diligent student in biology or chemistry has probably done the first year of graduate courses in his/her field during senior year. All of my science-oriented relatives were working on research projects in McGill labs as undergrads. Whether the greater specialization tips positive or negative for your son is unclear (and in any case, I think you can take a less specialized course of study).</p>

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<p>I think they’re changing that. I say this because that thread was in '08, and Conn ensures it’s students who are low-income have no or little loans. My friend got accepted with only 1k in loans whatsoever, and I know three different people who got their enrollment fees waived because they can’t afford it ($300). In '08 things weren’t so bad; but Conn has said that despite the economic downturn, they’re still doing well. To be fair, only the year before had they announced this: [Connecticut</a> College : Financial Aid - New Aid Policy](<a href=“http://www.conncoll.edu/admission/financialaid/8391.htm]Connecticut”>http://www.conncoll.edu/admission/financialaid/8391.htm)</p>

<p>I’m unsure that in today’s climate, Conn isn’t well-endowed, even if only in comparision. They have yet to announce cut-backs on anything whereas many comparable schools- like Bowdoin, for instance, have.</p>

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<p>I don’t agree with all of this. 73% of McGill undergraduates are in-province students. 81% of Connecticut College students are out-of-state. Even though most students are from New England and the mid-atlantic states, the west is well-represented and there are students from many other states. </p>

<p>Although a higher proportion of McGill students graduated in the top 10% of their high school class than at Connecticut College, I wouldn’t assume this always means brighter students. The less numbers-based admissions at Conn does help weed out those who obviously only care about grades can’t apply themselves outside of the classroom. Still, we can’t really compare the intellectual abilities of the schools. Anyways, it’s starting to become more well-known that the name of your college doesn’t matter a whole lot in the job hunt, especially after your first job.</p>

<p>Yurtle, I’m sure they’ve had to do something to deal with the recession. They may have just done things that they don’t need to publicize. It’s good for them that they can still offer no loans for low income students and still offer their stipends for unpaid internships.</p>

<p>I looked up the updated Pell Grant recipient rankings. As of the 2007-2008 data, 10% of Connecticut College students are receiving Pell Grant aid. My guess is that for many colleges this data may have changed. Here’s the complete list: [Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/liberal-arts-economic-diversity]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/liberal-arts-economic-diversity)</p>

<p>Interesting choice of colleges… No doubt each provides a great experience. The key for me would be is the student ready, at age 18, to thrive in an atmosphere where there is no coddling, where contact with professors is dependent on the persistance of the student, where a lot of people off-campus will be a bit gruff with non-French speakers, and where he will be on his own to find an apartment 3 out of the 4 years. College is difficult enough without these challenges…but if he’s a tough self-starter, and can handle all of this, McGill would be a great choice. (By the way, I’m an American who got a master’s degree in Canada, and nobody in the US has ever indicated that it’s less respected than an American degree would be).</p>

<p>@ shawbridge: Thanks so much for that detailed post. I think everything is pretty much clear. Thanks taking out time to write such a detailed one. I really appreciate.</p>

<p>@saintsaens: True, we cant compare the intellectual abilities,</p>

<p>@schmaltz: I think he should be able to cope in Mcgill. Spoke to him about what all was said in this forum( teh internet in his school cant be much trusted) and he seems more and more for Mcgill</p>

<p>@yurtle: My son also got a substantial FA from Connecticut but none from Mcgill.</p>

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<p>Which is why I said things they’ve announced, rather than things they haven’t. It was something I knew I’d want to consider in light of FA and professor availability- whether or not there were faculty cut-backs. But the President has released statements about Conn having a good position at the moment:</p>

<p>[YouTube</a> - ConnecticutCollege’s Channel](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/user/ConnecticutCollege#p/u/13/QubZ5GqIJ_Q]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/user/ConnecticutCollege#p/u/13/QubZ5GqIJ_Q)</p>

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<p>Can you afford McGill, at all? I mean, is this a reasonable amount you have to pay, including housing/meal plans, as opposed to Conn? The biggest difference there is that Conn includes fees, housing, board, and tuition as one big price (IE room & board are a set price.) McGill doesn’t seem to do that it looks like prices are different based on meal plan or dorm.</p>

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<p>Clarification. Many Americans consider it the Harvard of Canada. ;)</p>

<p>This has been said in various ways, I guess, but you might think about whether your child has been a leader in high school or a more reserved sort; whether s/he (i forgot!) got to know teachers easily or not and so forth. The more reserved students may benefit greatly from the LAC environment. (although, reputation-wise I would probably say McGill) I have definitely seen students who chose smaller schools because they felt that it would be easier to stand out and get involved in a variety of activities.</p>

<p>In regards to cost, here are some things you should consider:</p>

<p>You may want to ask students in the McGill subforum how much housing costs off-campus.</p>

<p>Consider travel costs. See how much it would take to fly to the nearest airports and the availability of direct flights.</p>

<p>General cost of living.</p>

<p>Many people consider Harvard the McGill of the US. (Insert winking smiley face here.)</p>

<p>PS Can you claim any Canadian or French ancestry? Although McGill’s tuition is much less than what we generally see in US, it is a LOT less if you claim above.</p>

<p>@ yurtle: From the numbers given to me, it seems to me ( I might be wrong as I dont know what all to include and deduct) it comes to be a wee lill over Conn after the aid( unless some hidden cost is involved. I had posted this in the Mcgill Subforum also. ( now keeping my fingers crossed abt any hidden ones). I might have to take help again in the calculations if things are not clear.</p>

<p>@saintseans: Yes so true, I think after first year, the numbers wil change again.</p>

<p>@ Hitch123: He is on reserved side but he finds his way when it comes to the task.</p>

<p>Can’t resist a comment about the “81% are OOS” for Conn College. States are so small in the northeast US it doesn’t mean the students come from very far away to be OOS- they should state out of region/out of NE stats. Quebec includes a far more diverse population, especially with anglo- and franco-philes. Never heard of CC, of course have heard of McGill and its good reputation.</p>

<p>^ Do we count ethnic diversity in this, or just state diversity? That’s a really weird way to phrase it- anglo/franco-philes are still mostly white. Honestly, to me, that doesn’t seem necessarily more or less diverse.</p>

<p>Alwaysamom stated: “Clarification. Many Americans consider it the Harvard of Canada.”</p>

<p>Actually, this concept/title was introduced to me by a bunch of Canadiens that live in Montreal. So, it is not only Americans that think this.</p>

<p>I think this is all (both schools) for people in the know. I had heard of Conn through College books- that go through American colleges, obviously- but I’d never heard of McGill being anything, much less the Harvard of Canada, until this forum. But if S is going to grad school, people are likely to be in the know anyways.</p>

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<p>That’s interesting. I’m a dual citizen who has lived in both countries and for most of my adult life in Canada. I’ve never heard a Canadian refer to McGill as the Harvard of Canada. My H, two brothers-in-law, a few cousins and nieces and nephews all attended McGill. Two of my closest friends have taught there for years and we have a large contingent of family who live on the Island so I’m surprised to hear that ‘a bunch’ told you this. :slight_smile: Canadian public universities (all) do not have the diversity of quality as those in the U.S. do. You’re going to get an excellent education at any of them. Even at that, though, no one I know would consider McGill any better than U of T, Queens, or UBC. In any case, that is off the topic of the discussion so, again, I wish the OP’s son the best of luck in his decision.</p>

<p>Do you gamble or like buffets a lot? Conn is close to the casinos, Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun. </p>

<p>I think Montreal is a great freaking city. I love it there. We looked into buying a place there some years back.</p>

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Quebec is a tad larger than Connecticut.</p>

<p>I like shawbridge’s post above.</p>

<p>yurtle, in the US we are focused on racial diversity given our shameful history of slavery. </p>

<p>Canadians will have to correct me, but I think that in Canada, the central political tension arose when the British merged British controlled Upper Canada (some of Quebec and Ontario) with then French controlled Lower Canada but agreed to respect the separate and distinct character and language of what is now Quebec. There was, however, significant economic and other discrimination against francophones. In more recent years, Canadians have started to deal with their sad history with respect to natives. Some are called First Nations, have been granted extraordinary legal rights, while other native groups appear to have lesser status. I can imagine public universities wanting to provide some form of affirmative action for francophones and native Canadians, but I have not heard that they do so.</p>

<p>In addition to the benevolent social engineering function of trying to educate not just the elites, universities make an argument that creating hooks is good because students get to know and work with people from all different kinds of backgrounds. My own instinct is that our society is more just and economically more efficient if we increase upward mobility (and hence downward mobility also). As such, I think that focusing on economic diversity is perhaps as or more important than focusing on broader racial diversity. But the broader point is that there are lots of ways to slice diversity and white/non-white is only one and is one that probably has greater resonance in the US than in many other countries.</p>