<p>Hopefully your true personality shines through in your essays.
Oh and pick some safety schools you love.</p>
<p>Yomama,
No need to get personal here. The fact that you have resorted to personal attacks just shows that you have run out of rational points to counter mine.</p>
<p>I am not trying to attack any of you URM admits on a personal level. I know that many of you have extraordinary stats, and even those who were admitted because of affirmative-action are extraordinary people, I'm sure.</p>
<p>But the problem of affirmative-action still exists nonetheless. This is, you must admit, utterly unfair. Racism is racism, regardless of the target. Just because this policy favors races that are socio-economically disadvantaged does not make it right. This policy is still founded on racial differences, and it is thus unjust..</p>
<p>This argument for stats doesn't take into consideration inferior preparation for lower-income (possibly URM) students. It can be difficult for a student in that position to afford extensive SAT preparation; private tutors are not accessible to everyone. Your "analysis" ignores any outside influences which encourage people to post on this board. Perhaps some of the students with lower SAT scores just didn't want to post on here? Or, maybe URMs are simply underrepresented on a website focused on elite college admissions.</p>
<p>Divvany. You make several points, several of which are valid, others of which are not.</p>
<p>You first assert that URM's may have lower scores because of lower education levels; this is probably true. This factor must be taken into consideration by the adcoms, and would account for the stat discrepancy between URM and non-URM admits. Good point, though I doubt this alone would explain the HUGE gap we see today.</p>
<p>Your second point, that non-URMs with lower scores don't post, is ridiculous. Statistically there are just as many shy URM's as shy non-URMs lol</p>
<p>Your third point, that URMs are underrepresented on CC, does not constitute a point at all. Even if URMs were indeed underrepresented, the proportion of high-score admits and low-score admits would still be the same... this is pure statistics and common sense..</p>
<p>People always love to attack affirmative action on CC, but interestingly enough, the students at top universities love and embrace the diversity of their campuses, and AA helps in providing for that.</p>
<p>This debate is old and tired.</p>
<p>Your ''pure statistics" and "common sense" argument is wonderful...if you absolutely ignore any statistics knowledge and common sense...sense! The fact that minorities are vastly underrepresented in comparison to non-minority applicants creates a sampling problem. You can't treat this set of applicants as a population or even fully random sample; the size of the pool is prohibitively small. If you had sampled a small sample from the 20,000+ applicant pool - let's say 200, or even 100, you might approach a better conclusion. However, you would have to take a group of similar proportions from the non-minority groups. The set of minorities on this board is far smaller than said extremely low limit. You might be right...but you can't take the small unrepresentative group on CC as "proof" of your correctness.</p>
<p>Diversity is great, so long as it does not come at the expense of honest, hard-working people who deserve to get in and don't.</p>
<p>There are many, many honest, hard-working people who deserve to get in and don't simply because H can't accept EVERYONE. Get over yourself.</p>
<p>Divvany, again, you obviously don't know statistics. </p>
<p>The "sampling problem" argument does not hold, because the numbers are so overwhelming that it cannot be pure chance. 95% of admits with ridiculously low scores (by HYP standards) are URM's. If this was a sampling problem, it would have been 30-40% (considering that 25-30% of the country are URM's)</p>
<p>Orrican,
if it isn't fair to you that URMs get accepted with lower stats, it isn't fair to me (and other minorities) that I cannot afford a tutor to help me get a perfect score on the SAT, cannot have my own room to do my homework in peace, do not have parents that graduated in this country to help me with the college process. And don't give me that c**p on affirmative action because Veteran preferences, Alumni preferences, homeowner preferences (in the form of home mortgage deductions), student deferments during the Vietnam war, and hundreds of millions of dollars of subsidies for manufacturers, farmers, mining and logging companies, including a $300 billion bailout of the Savings and Loan industry are all forms of affirmative action for white men. So think before you speak. If affirmative action still exists today, it's for a reason. Don't hate. And I bet that "all those hispanics with an SAT score below a 2100" would have gotten way better scores if society hadn't screw them over and placed soci0-economically where they are.</p>
<p>orrican, I'd love to see the source you got that 95% figure from.</p>
<p>I could not afford a tutor, either. I bought a book and scored a 2340.</p>
<p>And yes, other forms of affirmatice-action do exist. And these forms are just as unjust.</p>
<p>Candlize, check the EA and RD threads. You can practically predict the race of the admit using their stats...</p>
<p>seriously, go and check.</p>
<p>Candlize, I agree. The debate over affirmative action is quite old. Orrican, I do admire that you seem to have some sort of passion for statistics and backing up your arguments. Good for you! Honestly, it's hard to come by somebody who can somewhat-effectively utilize figures to make a case. Unfortunately, I cannot say you've proven your case due to points brought up by Divanny and some other CCers. Statistics just aren't everything. There are many things that the skews and bell curves do not reveal such as the many outside factors inherent in college admissions. You will NEVER know the difficulty of being a lower-income URM, I'm sure, so you will thus NEVER be able to make a perfect assertion. No one will. Like candlize said, the debate is old. Just let it be. Again, AA is one thing, but there are way too many intagibles for you to make such sweeping assumtions and then follow up by using statistics as your ultimate back-up. Please my friend, take your nose out of your AP Statistics textbook and get out some more (...I say that in jest, regardless of whether or not you've already taken it and gotten a 5)! Haha, ok g'night everyone and congrats to all!!</p>
<p>APDoolittle,
The Jews, the Irish, the Russians, and many other groups have suffered the conditions today's URMs undergo. They did not get any favors. And they suceeded nonetheless.</p>
<p>And just so you know, I am dirt-****ing poor lol</p>
<p>I'm poor too!!</p>
<p>Look at your post! Carefully analyze the verb tenses and then come back and write me a statistical analysis between historically URMs and current URMs.</p>
<p>CCers, the scary things is... I think Orrican actually will do it!! Ahhh, shoot... maybe I souldn't have asked! L:DL</p>
<p>I'm not arguing whether you're right or not - I believe that URMs contribute to a college's diversity and atmosphere no matter what their SAT scores. However, you might want to consider the respective sizes and sources for your statistical analysis before you continue to bring in skewed numbers. I hope you do well on the stats test (assuming you haven't taken it) and I suggest you read over the sampling section. :-p</p>
<p>lol </p>
<p>You guys know that AA exists, to a certain extent at the very least. The stats we see on CC cannot be 'skewed' this significanly because of the so-called 'sampling-errors' one of you mentioned. the gap is so overwhelmingly wide that it is obviously rooted in racial-differences. </p>
<p>Again, I congratulate all URM admits. Many of you would have gotten in without AA, and even those who did get in because of AA deserve HYP, because I'm sure their character is extraodinary (living through discrimination is already extraordinary in and of itself hehe).</p>
<p>But AA exists. And whether you think this policy is good or not is another story.</p>
<p>The Jews Irish and Russians have something that African Americans did not have: they weren't brought here agaisnt their will. And besides, when they began immigrating to this great country, it was at the exact same time blacks were beginning to get a name for themselves. Natives would fire the blacks and hire the europeans. European immigrants have benefited from racism b/c they took the jobs away from blacks, they could assimilate, blacks could not.
Beat that. :)</p>
<p>Ever heard of the "no dogs or Irish allowed" signs?</p>
<p>And the slavery deal has nothing to do with it. Besides, what about the Latinos? were they brought here against their will as well?</p>