<p>Imamiger: I will PM you. If anyone else is interested in the answer to the question, PM me.</p>
<p>My son is a student at UW-Madison…not in music, though he hangs with music majors in his a cappella group. </p>
<p>From the standpoint of an active collegiate experience good marching band opportunities, UW Madison has it for you. Shennie pointed out the positives of the campus and surrounding community, and I second those good aspects of town. I think the collegiate experience and good marching band opportunities would likely exist at any Big 10 school, though.</p>
<p>My son’s friend is a political science major and his girlfriend is an English major. Both are performers, though, and have found venues in which to have that experience even though they’re not performance majors. His friend is in a campus community production of Godspell right now and is having lots of fun with it. His girlfriend is involved in a campus-based theater group who recently presented The Vagina Monologues. So, there are opportunities for those not in performance majors to be performing.</p>
<p>Sorry I can’t comment on the music ed program, but I thought I’d chime in on the campus scene. UW Madison is a vibrant college community, with lots of room for students to be involved.</p>
<p>“and also a strong foreign language department (dual degree). They must have a pretty good program for study abroad options too.”</p>
<p>This will be tricky. Music ed programs are very structured; classes are usually taken in sequence. Leaving campus for a semester (or a year) will have a serious impact on a student’s progress.</p>
<p>U Wisconsin is an very respected program, but I’m not sure of the grad to undergrad ratio if that is a concern. I was going to suggest a hard look there.</p>
<p>If a program is large, there are often tiered ensembles or other instrumental performing organizations (ipo’s), split by major with higher tiers normally open to performance majors (and by audition) for other music discipline majors. The detail is usually within the music school’s website.</p>
<p>Some programs will treat and expect their music ed candidates to be top flight performers and will not limit the performance opportunities by major, or grad/undergrad, or year status.
Ask about ipo seating, and if all chairs are assigned by audition. Again, another indication is if the lesson times are equivalent for music ed versus performance majors, and if the applied faculty provide private instruction across major.</p>
<p>From a pure cost standpoint, the public instate option is normally the most cost effective, but in many cases, if a student is academically strong, and talented musically, it pays to look at oos and in some cases privates where a combination of academic and talent awards can bring the costs close to (and in the best cases) below those of an instate public. The key here is looking at the admissions/scholarship pages for both the music school and the university/college to see the parameters of the academic awards, what the academic criteria and ranges are, and what specifically is offered to oos students. The public schools are mandated to serve instate, and the $ amounts awarded vary considerably, so there is a wide range of what exactly constitutes a hefty award. You’ll also need to know the policies (for both public and privates) as to whether an academic award can be combined with a music talent award. Some schools allow both, some will negate an academic award if a music talent scholarship is offered, some will only award the higher of the two. Nothing is set in stone, it’s all institution specific. Again, the trick here is trying to gauge your d’s talent within an audition pool, and this is where professional level assessment and comment is critical.</p>
<p>If a concern is solid or high level general academics in addition to strong music, look into how the class structure is offered. Some programs will allow music students to fulfill many academic requirements within the music school, whereas others have the classes within the general university population. Look into honors level program parameters if your d’s stats and need for these permit it. Most publics offer an honors level program for those with the credentials. In many cases, their is a real desire to offer these incentives to instate students rather than have them go outside the borders, or to privates.</p>
<p>Band is not my forte, and my guess is you’ll find many strong programs at the larger Big 10 types and state publics. I just don’t know enough to suggest privates with strong marching band programs.</p>
<p>My guess is you’re in OH, maybe Michigan I’m just going to throw out some names, based on solid programs I’m aware of: Ball State, Kent State, U Missouri (KC), U Nebraska (Lincoln), U North Texas. Grand Valley State is supposedly an excellent smaller program. Oberlin is worth a look, if nothing else from a comparative standpoint for admissions and audition parameters.</p>
<p>As for licensure/provisional certificate reciprocity, the professional associations should have links to the differing parameters for each state. I know one of them does. It’s usually not much of an issue gaining certification in an alternate state if one holds an initial licensure in a different state. I think the PRAXIS site also has the cross reference reciprocity agreement chart.</p>
<p>Again, ask away, and I’ll answer where I can, or at least try to point you to additional info.</p>
<p>My D has some similar interests–foreign language/study abroad/music ed/good performance faculty. For these reasons we are putting Ithaca on the list. They have affiliations with many study abroad programs. They also have a page in the music web site which makes suggestions for music majors who want to go abroad. This leads me to believe that they are perhaps supportive of such an idea. Here is the link: [Recommendations</a> for International Study (Study Abroad) - Current Students - WebDev Team - Ithaca College](<a href=“School of Music, Theatre, and Dance | Ithaca College”>School of Music, Theatre, and Dance | Ithaca College)
We have not visited, so I only have info via this board and their website. NYU has study abroad for music, but it is not immersion, seems to be more like NYU follows you to Prague or Florence, but maybe that’s enough. At least the students are fulfilling music requirements. Crane has a direct exchange program in Pau, France, but I contacted their study abroad office, and they said that program’s been dormant a few years and that past students had had minimal support there in France. So it sounds to me that even if we find what might look like a good study abroad program on paper, more research will definitely be needed. Syracuse U has a program in France w/music in Strassbourg, and it is open to students from other U’s. U of Colorado mentions it in their pages. IES is an independent study abroad organization that many universities say they accept. They have interesting-looking programs that include local conservatory study and language immersion (or not) in Milan, Paris, and other cities. With study abroad, you have to check carefully what happens with financial aid. In some cases, it follows the student abroad, in other cases you lose it during that time. Also, just because the study abroad is available for music students, doesn’t mean the faculty/advisor will encourage it or even allow credits to fulfill music requirements. That makes sense–they don’t want to lose that year or semester training the student.</p>
<p>Wow, this got way off of college towns, but I am responding to points raised in this thread.</p>
<p>NYU is an excellent program, but unfortunately is historically non generous in offering academic, talent (or need based) aid if that is a concern.</p>
<p>As a Spartan alum, I can attest to the fact that the place is geographically pretty large. I remember checking maps when choosing classes to make sure I could get between them in the time allotted. Sometimes in Winter we could take a shortcut on the frozen Red Cedar River that flows through campus which was fine if you could stay out of the way of the pickup hockey games going on in the wider spots.</p>
<p>The other thing that’s really outstanding about MSU is the fact that, since horticulture is an important program there, the entire campus is one big plant and tree lab so the place is pretty stunning in Spring and Summer.</p>
<p>Too late to edit my #24, so I’ll add it here.</p>
<p>Throw in UC Boulder, but beware that they and ASU are both having severe budgetary constraints that may or may not effect the music programs. The U Nebraska (Lincoln) program has the largess of an active donor, who is apparently very supportive of the music program.</p>
<p>I think that UW Madison is really worth a look based on your criteria. I don’t know the undergrad to grad ratio in the music school, but I would guess it is similar to the university as a whole which is about 75% undergrad. The world language options are amazing and has one of the widest selections of languages anywhere. Music ed. is quite strong overall although I do think that performance majors are more highly regarded than ed majors, but I am not positive on that.</p>
<p>A past thread on marching band and participation, and differing school philosophies. It may help in formulating questions when you get down to the brass tacks for some programs. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/601887-performance-major-marching-band.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/601887-performance-major-marching-band.html</a></p>
<p>“Oberlin is worth a look, if nothing else from a comparative standpoint for admissions and audition parameters.”</p>
<p>Note that Oberlin no longer offers Music Ed as an undergrad major, except to students who started in that major in prior years and are working to complete it. They do have an ongoing Master’s level program in Music Ed that is one of a very small number of graduate programs there. There is more information available at
[Oberlin</a> College | New Master of Music Teaching Program Overview](<a href=“http://www2.oberlin.edu/musiced/mmt/]Oberlin”>http://www2.oberlin.edu/musiced/mmt/)</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads up. Interesting, as it was long established and respected undergrad program.</p>
<p>I missed librarian377’s comment in post 23, and want to expand it. As stated the music ed curriculum is highly structured and sequenced, so unless the program is designed to accommodate a semester abroad, it’s going to be tough. Getting out of synch will add an additional semester or year.</p>
<p>Same thing with a double degree or dual major. Music ed is a time and credit intensive major, and ensemble, observation class requirements may conflict with language lab requirements, but this may not be an issue with larger schools with more time slot offerings of the same course.</p>
<p>It’s not unusual for a double major or dual degree to take a full five years. If there is serious interest, it is important to broach this when visiting, and it will behoove you to know the general requirements of the institution and their overall philosophy (as well as the music ed department’s) feelings on a dual pursuit. Some institutions are supportive, some discourage it, some pay lip service but make it difficult to impossible to achieve.</p>
<p>The policies are usually covered within the undergrad handbook (and music specific supplement if applicable), normally found in a link off the academic webpage. This is also the source for actual degree requirements and recommended degree plans. Good to know for planning purposes, and to see how much “fat” there is in the schedule for an alternate serious pursuit.</p>
<p>We abandoned the idea of a dual performance/music ed undergrad major for our DD, fairly early in the process. A professor we talked to at Florida State made a good case for allowing the undergrad years to concentrate on our daughter’s true passion, what she truly saw herself doing (ie, performing), then going back for the master’s at a later time. In most cases, this woman explained, you are looking at at least a 5-year course of study to get the dual Bachelor’s in performance/music ed. If you did it her way, it was four plus two. She felt this was a better way for a student to give both courses of study the committment they deserve. Besides which, if a performance student really kicked butt by concentrating solely on UG performance, it may open up doors for a reduced-rate graduate study.</p>
<p>Hi VicAria – We’ve been weighing the same question. To me it made more sense to focus on the single undergraduate degree and then a masters degree rather than a five- year double major. This would be especially true if an undergraduate scholarship, lasting only four years, is at issue. I’m hearing that some schools offer a five year combination undergraduate and masters degree, so that’s an alternative. What I don’t want to see is my daughter living in a pressure cooker trying to get the double major in four years. I’d like her to have a little fun while going to school and am not looking for a repeat “junior year in high school” situation when she was loaded with multiple AP’s etc.</p>
<p>Same with us. We also weren’t sure DD has the administrative where-with-all to be able to manage the class registration process that would be necessary to achieve the double major in the most time-efficient way. Plus, the MusicEd profs we met did not look kindly upon for their course of study being her “plan B”.</p>
<p>We visited the campus a couple of weeks ago. We loved it and cannot tell you how impressed we were. Yes, the flood damaged the music school and they are building a new facility. However, the teachers are incredible and the university is on top of the rebuilding. The campus was very clean, neat, buildings were beautiful. Other than the construction (which we saw at almost every campus) and the temporay units there was no sign of the flood. They are renovating a building for the “temporary” music building while the construction is going on - and it will be up and running next semester. No more units. We spoke with the students there and asked how it has been. While it has “been an adventure in learning” the program really did not seem to skip a beat. (pardon the pun!) In the end, my d said that U of Iowa was the place she wanted to be. Campus is incredible, the city was very nice…it is very much a picture perfect big 10 college town. Husband and I are Indiana grads, so we end up comparing campuses with IU. After traveling and visiting schools for our two d’s, we have to say that this campus was one of, if not the nicest campus we have seen. And, to tell you the truth, we were not expecting to be that impressed. Our thoughts went from “lets just see what its like” to…" Let’s buy the sweatshirt, we have a Hawkeye". While she had acceptances from schools with impecable music buildings and performance areas with wonderful teachers, she has no doubt that this is the place for her and niether do we! Everything seemed to just click. She loves the teacher at Iowa and the feel of the campus. The people are incredibly friendly and very helpful. The program is personal and offers many opportunities to perform while taking advantage of a large Big 10 school. It was exactly what she was looking for. It was the only school we went to that she actually said…this is it. She is so excited and it is WONDERFUL to see the weight lifted from her shoulders when she saw U of I.</p>