<p>What do you know about the surrounding town/community for these schools?</p>
<p>Miami University, Dayton OH
U of Kansas, Lawrence KS
U of Iowa, Iowa city IA
U of Wisconsin, Madison WI
Michigan State, East Lansing MI
Ohio State U, COlumbus OH
Colorado State U, Fort Collins, CO</p>
<p>I'm trying to find out about the surrounding community, but if you know anything about their music ed programs that info would be welcome as well. Thanks!</p>
<p>We just got back from a tour that included Michigan State. The college and town seemed really well integrated, you could walk right from the West Campus onto a cute downtown area, that had lots to do. My impression is that there wouldn’t be much to East Lansing without MSU, so they have a good symbiotic relationship. For MusicEd, though, I think they may have a stronger relationship with Detroit, as a professor mentioned their outreach program with Detroit schools. But that was for performers; I’m not sure about actual student-teaching placements.</p>
<p>What did you think about the size of Michigan State? It seems like it would be a huge place to get lost in (and become a “number”) ?</p>
<p>The campus itself is HUGE. But I think you have to look carefully at the particular department you’re interested in. We were looking for our DD, who is interested in undergrad jazz vocal performance. The Jazz Studies Department is quite small, with a very friendly, family feel to it. We didn’t look into the MusicEd department, so we can’t help you much there. The Music Department seemed to be centered on what’s called West Campus, which was arranged around a grassy common area. That particular part of campus seemed easy to manage. </p>
<p>We didn’t do a full campus tour. Our usual MO is to visit the most relevant department(s) first, then see if we’re interested to learn more. </p>
<p>Maybe you could search Michigan State, our go to their thread to get a better idea of where students fit in?</p>
<p>Miami U is in Oxford, not Dayton!</p>
<p>We also looked at Michigan State and were really surprised at how intimate the music program seemed considering the size of the University. I am not familiar with the Music Ed department but I think that all of this applies. </p>
<p>As was mentioned above, the College of Music is located on the West Campus, the original campus when the University was first built. There is a large green and there is housing where most of the music majors live which is in the process of being updated. Students can walk to class, a student center, and the “College Town” of East Lansing all within a few minutes. There were tons of bicycles, I guess a required alternate mode of transportation if you do not have a car. The town had everything a student could want including a Gap, Barnes and Noble, and tons of places to eat. It had a nice small campus feel. There is a very nice hotel on campus which is run by the hotel and restaurant management school. We ate dinner there as the guests of some faculty and it was first class. We did not stay there because they were full that weekend (big game at Michigan).</p>
<p>Once off of West Campus the facility is huge. MSU was the first land grant University in the country and they have a really interesting agricultural facility. The property goes on forever. There are shuttle buses to take the students to classes across campus. </p>
<p>The music performance facility is pretty new and is a bit away from the College of Music. It was very impressive, we heard a fabulous Orchestra concert there. They attract a large audience from the community. The quality of the Orchestra and the Conductor were first rate. My S attended an Orchestra rehearsal and had a very warm welcome. Our impression was that the music program was top notch. I think it has played the second sister to U Michigan but is pretty equal in quality, just my impression.</p>
<p>Once out of East Lansing, however, there is NOTHING!! Lansing, although the capitol of Michigan, is a total ghost town on the weekend. Looking for something to do in the area is challenging, we drove about 45 minutes north to an apple farm. The desk clerk at our hotel confirmed this when we asked what there was to do. And we were surprised to see so many McCain - Palin signs all over the countryside. You don’t get that ultra conservative feeling on campus. (I am from Boston and S. Florida so my perspective is totally skewed when it comes to that). There are some suburban communities surrounding East Lansing which are very nice and a lot of the faculty live in those areas. I know that they have a big music program in one of the local school districts. </p>
<p>You do not get that huge State U. feel on the campus. Considering the number of students who attend, it did not seem that busy on a Friday. </p>
<p>We were told that because of the state of the economy in the world and in Michigan in particular, that they did not have much money to give scholarships this year. My S received no music money from them when he received generous performance merit scholarships at other schools of equal caliber. He did receive the maximum OOS merit award.</p>
<p>Hope this info has been helpful. They have just re done the MSU Music website this year.</p>
<p>I have taken lessons from Iowa for about 4 years now. I have to say that it is not the same as it used to be, however. The Iowa floods of last summer have deeply affected the campus, and specifically, the music building. The music building and Hancher Auditorium, a performing arts theater, were both severely damaged by the flooding and have been out of commission since last summer. In the fall, teaching studios, classrooms, and performance spaces were relocated to area churches and high schools; many of these have now moved back onto campus near the location of the old music building, courtesy of FEMA trailers. The trailers, however, are only temporary; I believe the University plans to make use of the Art Museum as the new music building.</p>
<p>All of that said, the situation for musicians at Iowa is not ideal at the moment. I am not a student of the University, however, so I lack full understanding of their circumstances. I do know, however, that there are several fabulous, fabulous teachers at Iowa in several instruments! Students in many studios enjoy extremely personal approaches to their education. Using my oboe teacher as an example, he made every effort to help his students whenever they needed it, offered an orchestral excerpt class, studio class, and reed class, and brought in several artists for master classes. His dedication to his students was remarkable!! I have seen such dedication (although not at as personal of a level) from at least five other professors that I have encountered during my time taking lessons at Iowa.</p>
<p>As for Iowa City in general, it is your quintessential college town. The University is located just a few blocks from the heart of the city, but if you get to the far reaches of the campus–say, the hospital–you will be right in the city. The city has a nice atmosphere, with a great ped mall, restaurants, things to do, etc. It’s a neat city! Plus, the river cutting through part of campus gives it a great feel–it’s so peaceful, and a nice escape from everything. There’s a bridge where pedestrians can cross the river, and you can watch the rowers practice, or hop on over to the park, which is really beautiful. One last note on Iowa City–Iowa weather is the ideal four-season environment. Hot, humid summers and the winters can get pretty dry, snowy, and cold, but the fall and spring are absolutely gorgeous! I’ve really loved Iowa weather–too bad it’s off to lake-effect Rochester in the fall :p</p>
<p>If you’re looking for any other schools in Iowa, the one that is most well known for its music education program is the University of Northern Iowa. It is smaller than the University of Iowa, has a beautiful campus, and brand new facilities. It certainly has a lot of things going for it right now, not to mention a fine reputation as a music program! I would really encourage you to look into it.</p>
<p>I live in Madison. Hubby and I attended grad school here and never left. It is a great city in which to live. The university is an integral part of the city. The northern edge of campus abuts a large lake. State Street which is about a half mile long, connects the eastern edge of campus to the state capital. The city is vibrant and there is lots of things to do. There is public transportation available for free to all students. The city is pretty safe for the most part. Most freshman live on campus and then end up getting an apartment after that although there are some upperclassmen that continue to live in the dorms. </p>
<p>The music facilities are not great, but not horrible. The main performance spaces are quite good but lacking in charm. Practice rooms are plentiful but very small. A new building is in the planning stages, but I think it will be 8-10 years before it actually comes to fruition.</p>
<p>Oxford is a tiny community. Basically the college is the town. Their “downtown” is just a few blocks long. There is a local “pub” where students go dancing. A couple restaurants. Several bookstores. A couple banks. There is a Kroger within walking distance. Wal-Mart is a few miles away - My D can usually find a friend with a car if she needs something. The student center also has a small store that sells groceries.</p>
<p>The town/school relations seem to be pretty good. Miami has it’s own police dept for the campus, and I think there are sometimes some strained relationships between the Miami and Oxford police. Oxford has a small hospital, which seems to be “good enough.” Miami has it’s own health center as well, so the hospital is only necessary for more severe cases or emergencies.</p>
<p>A fair number of students move off campus (on campus is required for the first 2 years) because it’s cheaper, but some of the landlords don’t have the greatest reputations.</p>
<p>The campus itself is pretty busy, with something for everyone. There always seems to be many formal (talks, concerts, movies, ice skating, sports…) and informal (parties, pick-up games) activities going on. My D was concerned about going to school so far from a big city, but hasn’t missed it too much. She has made a couple trips to Cincinnati to go to the symphony, and to Dayton to visit family members there. She usually flies in and out of Dayton because it’s cheaper. </p>
<p>The campus is very, very nice. The whole Western Campus is like a big scenic park, with a pond, a golf-frisbee course, etc. All the buildings on the main portion of campus are red brick, which is very attractive, but I would get lost! There are a bunch of bell towers – Apparently people keeping dying and leaving money for more belltowers!</p>
<p>One of the old buildings on Western Campus - called Presser - was just remodeled, and opened this year as the new music building, with classrooms, practice rooms, and teacher offices. The old Performing Arts Center (I can’t ever remember if it’s PAC or CPA) has a theater that is used mainly for drama. The music auditorium is at the opposite corner of campus.</p>
<p>Ohio State University is very big. Very very big student population. But there are lots of academic opportunities if you have the initiative. Lots of people love it. But it’s a big city. It’s not a very good looking collegetown all over but it has some very nice areas of campus. It is also in a city so there’s the usual be careful at night advice.</p>
<p>Lawrence is an old town, very charming. They have kept the downtown thriving and it is next to the campus. The campus is large and beautiful, all of the buildings have red roofs. I think there’s alot to do in town and it is very close to Kansas City, maybe a 30 - 40 minute drive.</p>
<p>With regards to Michigan State – we visited and were not impressed with their music education department. We saw an opera there – Candide – and it was absolutely fabuous.</p>
<p>imamiger, you imght take a look within here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/</a> and the other subforums under that heading for some specific campus/environ comments for any of the schools you’ve listed that weren’t touched on.</p>
<p>There are descriptions of Miami U OH and Lawrence here as well <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits.html</a></p>
<p>KeyofH, you said you were not impressed with Michigan State’s music education department? Would you mind elaborating on that? That’s one of our main issues since neither parent has a background in music or education – we don’t know how to evaluate the music ed program or department!</p>
<p>How can I help specifically?</p>
<p>imamiger –</p>
<p>If you’re interested in Michigan-based Music Ed, you might also want to include Western Michigan University in your search. (It’s about 90 minutes from Michigan State, to the west, in Kalamazoo)
Our daughter isn’t interested in MusicEd for undergrad, but we did meet Dr. Dee Gauthier when we sat in on one of her chorale groups. She had great energy, and wonderful rapport with her students. My impression is that WMU’s program tends to fly under the radar, but it is well-respected.</p>
<p>Violadad, thanks for the offer to help. Are there certain things we should look for or ask about to determine if a University has a good music education program? From what I have seen so far (two) they talk a good line and promote their program but when I heard keyofH say that they were not impressed with MSU’s music ed program it made me curious about what things did not seem right, or not seem good enough. I’m not sure I would know a good program from a bad one 
I do have a lot of knowledge about the business operations of large universities, but the music schools seem different. I know the difference between being taught by adjuncts or graduate students instead of regular tenured faculty, but I don’t know how to evaluate the music ed program per se. At least D is a junior, so we have a little time to keep learning.</p>
<p>My experience is in strings, but there are a number of points to consider in evaluating any program:</p>
<p>primary instrument: for a strong performer, the private instructor is often the paramount reason in applying. Many candidates for music ed are of conservatory level ability, and want to continue performance on a high level and want the best instruction possible. Peer quality of studio may be an important facet of the selection process. Additionally, in a number of programs, lesson times are shortened for music ed candidates, to 45 minutes or one half hour per week as opposed to a full hour for performance majors. Many schools do not adjust lesson times. Additionally, some large programs may relegate primary instrument instruction or studio to grad students/doctoral candidates rather than applied faculty, particularly underclassmen, again a consideration if the student is looking for instruction by named or specific faculty.</p>
<p>faculty make-up/credentials: Terminal degrees, professional association membership, experience in the class room and contributions to the profession are important considerations. Clinicians and speakers, faculty that are noted experts, contributing to professional journals, sought after for master classes, seminar/workshops at peer institutions, nat’l professional conferences are a plus. Schools with sought after grads are happy to share the stats.</p>
<p>Program size/class size allowing individualized instruction and mentoring is a factor, as is your student’s preference for size and location, ambiance of the institution in general.</p>
<p>Placement rate and positions of recent graduates: many programs will cite high percentages of degree students having jobs (or offers) prior to or within six months of graduation. It’s important to realize that not all of these offers/jobs are in full time positions, or in districts with well supported k-12 programs. Are the grads highly sought after in specific districts, across state lines, or on a broader geographic (even national) scale? Is the program stronger in a specific discipline area say band versus choral or instrumental offerings? </p>
<p>Hands on observation, participatory experiences: does the program get the students out and in the classroom early on in the program through observation, outreach classwork or does it relegate this training and experience to late in the game? Important insofar as many will realize they are not cut out to be k-12 educators, and the earlier they can be exposed and assess their potential and career path, the easier it will be to chamge direction or major.</p>
<p>Some practical, logistical concerns: are the outreach, participatory, student teaching experiences, local, regional or statewide? Some may find themselves doing student teaching within a wide radius. Transportation, logistics, will the student still live on campus or need alternative housing (or a car) during the student teaching semester are all factors to consider. Do the best opportunities go to the best students, or specific disciplines?</p>
<p>Google MENC (Music Educators National Conference), MTNA (Music Teachers National Association), ASTA (American String Teachers Association) and go through their websites. Each has a section on music education as a career with much helpful info. There is also a band specific teacher’s association, but the name escapes me.</p>
<p>Your state’s own music educators website should also be a source of info for students contemplating a music ed path (google yourstateMEA).</p>
<p>I’ve posted numerous info in a number of music ed threads in this forum. Search using advanced search/titles and “music education” or “music ed”. There’s numerous discussions.</p>
<p>Hope this helps a bit.</p>
<p>One consideration violadad forgot to mention – which is odd, because it’s normally one of the first points he makes – is where does your MusicEd major hope to live/teach? Each state’s state-school MusicEd program is pretty much geared to that state’s criteria, which are not necessarily consistent state-to-state.</p>
<p>Thanks to Violadad for the additional information–it is very helpful and I do follow your posts and other threads related to music ed. We are trying to look at some out-of-state schools because we feel our 3 in-state options have problems (or at least D thinks so):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>option 1 is excellent program and school but we have been told repeatedly that
due to large graduate program undergrad music majors (and in particular the music
ed students) are treated like stepchildren and have little opportunity to perform
in groups/ensembles due to the spots being taken by grad and performance students.</p></li>
<li><p>option 2 is a very good program with awesome facilities but not as strong a program
(supposedly) as option 1. Academic wise this school is very good and D would be
at the very top or above when comparing HS GPA and test scores. D doesn’t like
this school because it is local and she wants to get out-of-town.</p></li>
<li><p>option 3 is known as a teachers college and has a reputation for putting out really
good teachers but it’s academics are the weakest and D would be way way beyond
the top in terms of GPA and test scores. I’m not sure that the social aspects would
be what she’s used to because right how all of her friends are like herself (academically). The town is not as tood as 1 or 2, not nearly as much to do.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you consider the 3 above and the apparent issues with each then that leads us to think she really should look out-of-state, but where? Somewhere that is a good match in terms of academic quality of students, but with a great or at least very good football/marching band experience and also a strong foreign language department (dual degree). They must have a pretty good program for study abroad options too. She does not want to be just like a performance major, not looking for a conservatory environment but doesn’t want to be shunned like a stepchild as far as performance opportunities go. She is not chosing music ed to have a way to make money in music, she really really wants to teach.</p>
<p>Fortunately the nice people on this board have been very helpful and we keep exploring options and places that I’ve seen mentioned here. I guess if music schools were ranked on a scale of 1-10 we’re looking for an 8, lol. No conservatory, no Ivy but a really great university with lots going on.</p>