<p>It may be worth considering where your D wants to work. I live in the Pacific NW, but went to Harvard for my AB, back in the dark ages, and later moved to the West Coast for parts of my professional training (medicine). Although the two East Coast schools are world-renowned, I have the impression that on the West Coast, Stanford has greater cachet, at least in my city. Although the university where I work happens to be very "crimson", and there's no question that Harvard or Yale on your cv will help you greatly in my professional environment, outside the university setting, say among local business people, I believe Stanford is more impressive to West Coast people, at least in my age group. I do perceive a regional increase in respect for the West Coast elite schools, and less respect for the Ivies. That being said, I'd send my D to Harvard, if this were my choice. I loved the place. I made life-long friendships. Phillips Brooks House is pretty special, and Boston is just a really fun place to be a college student. My parents lived near Yale when I was in college (in the dark ages), so I lived and worked in Yale med school in summer. It was pretty awful then---truly dangerous fairly close to campus, decaying city all around, etc. I have a friend who is faculty there now. New Haven is still kind of an icky place, as far as I can tell from my friend, but she's leaving to go to Boston, LOL. Palo Alto is gorgeous, as I am sure you know, but it is the polar opposite experience, with palpable privilege all around for miles. I just don't think of it as a place with a very strong social welfare program for students, but I am really only familiar with graduates and graduate faculty, at this point, so I may not be aware of their undergrad programs at all. Best of luck!</p>
<p>I feel really bad for the OP. Your DD and family should have been able to make a decision based on your experiences, feelings, etc, by now. I find it highly irresponsible to consider any last minute input from sources like a CC forum this late in the game. Seriously,...</p>
<p>Serchington, the OP asked for advice on helping his daughter make a decision. He was not asking where she should go but how to help her recognize her own feelings about the pros/cons of each school. For many students, there is no clear first choice, and in such cases, it can be very difficult to make a decision. Many people, as well, prefer to work and make decisions under a tight time schedule. I think that it's inappropriate for you to judge the OP's family in such a way just because his daughter hasn't decided on a college yet.</p>
<p>My son has the same three schools to choose. Just a few minutes ago, he selected to go to Yale. We visited the three school in 10 days, and Yale came on top after the visit. However, it is a hard choice since Harvard's FA is the best. He thinks that he will be happier at Yale for its "community feeling, residential college, better undergraduate program, and better music program". He says that he is interested in biology at this moment and H and S are generally stronger in biology. He does not particularly like the vast campus of Stanford and the "lay-back" feeling even though he applied Stanford EA and we are on the west coast. Harvard is the hardiest to reject, but he feels that Harvard's undergraduate education might not be as good as its graduate schools. He eventually decided Yale is a better choice based on his own feeling and research. When he was rejecting the two schools, he said that he felt really strange and uncomfortable. Glad it is done!</p>
<p>MSMDAD, let your daughter go with her feeling! It is not rational and no formula will help her.</p>
<p>MSMDAD,</p>
<p>My son attended the visiting programs at all three schools. The MIT one was several weeks previous, but the Stanford and Harvard ones were back-to-back (he flew directly from California to Boston). </p>
<p>My son was interested in Computer Science, but not 100% committed to that major, and felt that Stanford was very strong in all academic areas which he might major in. (He ended up majoring in Economics and minoring in CS). He liked the atmosphere at Stanford the best of the three schools. The Stanford program for visiting students was much more lively and "rahrah" than the Harvard one (by intention, I am sure), and I am sure that this style would turn off many students but it appealed to him. I do think the style of the visiting programs accurately reflected the underlying atmosphere at each school.
He enjoyed the athletic, active atmosphere at Stanford and did not mind much that the city was a distance away. He liked the campus, as it was totally different from anything he had seen before.<br>
It is true that most Stanford students do not go to San Francisco frequently. There is a very strong community service program with East Palo Alto, as mentioned above. </p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter. All three of her choices are wonderful schools, so she just has to decide which will be best for her.</p>
<p>EDIT: I just thought of one more point - the quarter system at Stanford allows for more flexibility in trying out different fields of study than the semester system, as students end up taking many more distinct courses at Stanford than in a school where you normally take only 8 courses in a year. It is also advantageous for students in majors with a lot of requirements as far as studying abroad, as it is much easier to schedule being away for one-third of a year than one-half of a year as far as fitting in requirements.</p>
<p>I agree with zzzz - at this point, throw away the matrix and go with her gut! The time for rationality is over; there really is no "rational" way to decide between 3 such great choices. (Or rather than doing the "pick from a hat" test, try another one - tell her "We'll go with the cheapest (if you include transportation costs)". Or, what a teenager hates to hear most - "If you can't decide, I'll decide." She'll make her decision fast enough!</p>
<p>
[quote]
all of the points have been tallied, and still no decision! I have the feeling that the school received the highest number of points is not where she wants to go!
[/quote]
Isn't the answer buried right here? There is no wrong answer among these schools. If she didn't feel right about the one with the highest number of points, then that one goes. Now look at the other two. Re-evaluate the points, if she's so inclined; weight them if she's so inclined. Then, when she sees the results .... if she likes how it came out, the decision is made. If she <em>doesn't</em> like how it came out, the decision is made.</p>
<p>One can only go so far with data, analysis and listening to the preferences of others - even the brilliant minds on this board ;). She can go with her gut reaction, knowing that it is an informed one.</p>
<p>As a truely last resort:
I suggest to look at the transfer acceptance rate. Go to the school where it is hardest to get into as a transfer. Then if she hates it, she'll have a better chance of getting readmitted to the ones she declined.</p>
<p>Stanford is really far away from San Francisco for undergrads:). Slightly more conservative than Harvard or Yale too - that's usually the underlying theme in a dislike of "preps".</p>
<p>I am not sure I agree with Alumother that Stanford is slightly more conservative or preppy than Harvard and Yale. Politically, I think they are pretty much the same and as far as "preppiness", the stereotypical California lifestyle is more casual and laid-back than that of the Northeast.</p>
<p>Well, having attended Harvard vicariously through my H ;) and Stanford myself for grad school, I would tend (with apologies to my friend Alumother) to agree with MotherOfTwo that there is not a discernible difference in "preppiness" between those two. You can find the type at either place; but you'd have to look. Their presence would not overwhelm you.</p>
<p>San Francisco would not be a regular trip for a Stanford undergrad. OTOH, there is a fair amount happening in Palo Alto, with a pretty vibrant area of shops and restaurants. Not to mention the Stanford Shoping Center if anyone is a fashionista :).</p>
<p>Every Stanford undergrad I have ever known has made it up to San Francisco at least a couple of times a semester, often more frequently than that. A little more frequently than Yalies go to New York, certainly.</p>
<p>To me there is a clear choice and that's Stanford. It is strong in all her departments. It is less competitive then the other two which sounds more like her personality. There are oodles of volunteering opportunities there. The students are happy. Stanford being close to San Francisco, but not too close, is a plus and makes for a vibrant on campus social life. </p>
<p>Just so you know where I am coming from: I must admit Harvard makes me cringe. I would never suggest a kid even apply to Harvard. Even the name makes me cringe 'Haaavad'. So, that is my West coast bias. A super nice friend of my DD's in California went there and absolutely hated it. But, he was a California kid with a typical CA relaxed personality. He chose Harvard because that is where his parents wanted him to go because of the name. So, that might have colored his loathing, but it was cutthroat and he couldn't stand that. </p>
<p>Yale is friendlier, but I have heard complaints that undergrads are shortchanged there. I do know one kid there and she is very happy. She doesn't care about professor attention.</p>
<p>Stanford is thought of more highly on the West coast then the other two. It is probably the same way on the East coast-perhaps they snub Stanford in the same way. The name Harvard or Yale does not impress quite as much as one would think.</p>
<p>I think of Stanford as a place for really, really smart kids who enjoy life to the nth degree. They have drive and determination, but see beyond themselves into the world as a whole. I think of Harvard as a place for superachievers with super drive and competitiveness who are bound and determined to be ultra important some day. I do not think volunteerism is particularly high there, for example. I think of Yale as a great school for East Coast brainiacs with lots of fun secret societies, et al. Between Harvard and Yale, Yale beats H hands down for me. These are my biases and whether they hold any truth they are certainly up for discussion.</p>
<p>You are from the East coast. The people will be different who choose Stanford over the other two. I remember when Chelsey Clinton chose Stanford and made the comment that one reason she chose it was because it was so different from the East Coast where she had grown up. She thought it was important to stretch herself and try another part of the country. Stanford might create the most anxiety for your DD because of the distance, but a plane ride away is not that far these days.</p>
<p>All have strong academics in what she is interested in. The choice should come down to where she thinks she will be happiest. She should forget the academics and look at:</p>
<p>Which has the best food?
Which students gave her the best feeling?
Which has the most interesting dorms?
Does she ride a bike (Stanford kids all ride bikes to class)?
Weather-some kids can't imagine not having snow all winter and some hate being cold. Does sun make her happy or does she not care? Does she love snow sports on the weekends?
Is she mature enough to want somewhere very different or would she be more comfortable closer to home?
Does she have that stereotypical reserved East Coast personality or is she more relaxed?</p>
<p>Good luck today making that decision! Let us know.</p>
<p>But less frequently than Princetonians go to New York....</p>
<p>Maybe Stanford is different than it appears to a person walking through it. Just appears more conservative, also the Hoover Institute has always colored my perceptions. I think my dad the professor would agree with me, but that still doesn't make me right, obviously.</p>
<p>I am not meaning popped collars per se BTW, just edgy vs. non-edgy.</p>
<p>This is perhaps the friendliest disagreeing I have seen on cc. Thanks all for not flaming me....</p>
<p>And also the bike thing at Stanford is really important.</p>
<p>"Go with your gut" is great advice when the gut speaks clearly, but my son's gut is pretty undecided, and it sounds like the same is true of OP's daughter. He didn't like the Stanford vibe, and he likes Cambridge, so he has narrowed it down to Harvard and MIT, but now he seems stuck; he spent a lot of time last night flipping coins. So is there any other general advice out there beyond "go with your gut"?</p>
<p>MSMDAD - In the words of Jimmy Buffett, indecision may or may not be the problem.</p>
<p>There IS no good advice to be had on this topic. These schools, really, are pretty uniformly great. There may be a few areas of comparative academic superiority, and that's as good a ground as any for choosing -- it's how I chose -- but given the propensity of top students to re-direct themselves during college, choosing on that basis is as random as any other basis. Weather, location, school colors -- they're all perfectly valid criteria, and serve to distinguish the schools more than looking for micro differences in the wealth, education, or politics of their students.</p>
<p>The big difference between Stanford and the others is that, yes, it's in California (although it probably feels like Princeton to kids from SoCal). It has a lot more engineers than Harvard, and more than Princeton; it's really an engineering-centric culture, with a lot of liberal arts people around. But fewer engineers / less techcentric than MIT. Finally, I believe, based on decades' old prejudices that keep getting confirmed by little bits of current information, that Stanford does not do as good a job as the Eastern schools at advising kids and keeping them on track, and that the culture there (where looking laid back is valued) can lead some students to believe that academics aren't that important. Stanford is easily the equal of any other top college for a self-starter -- and that may be all it has anymore -- but for a kid who might get lost, it's a place where that's possible, too.</p>
<p>I also think that the lack of residential college/house/eating-club institutions there is a weakness, but honestly the students don't seem to mind.</p>
<p>There is a lot of "dorm pride" at Stanford, but students change their dorm-group every year, as opposed to the other schools where students stay with the same group in the same place for several years.</p>
<p>As far as the Hoover Institute, I know there have been a lot of protests about it and when President Bush visited last year, he was forced to move his meeting with Hoover faculty off-campus due to protests by students in the area of campus where his meeting had been planned. I believe it happened during the admitted students days last spring.</p>
<p>I think that when choosing between Harvard and MIT one should consider how sure he is about his major (Harvard will allow more flexibility), what kind of community he would like to be part of (Tech schools will have much higher M/F ratio, and students will be more uniform as far as their interests go), etc.</p>
<p>Harvard and MIT are so different it's hard for me to imagine not being able to decide between the two. :) I'd look at likely majors, and the very different approaches to housing. I actually think that not only does MIT have a nice M/F ratio, but if you are a scientist you are more likely to have that same ratio in your science classes. If on the other hand you are like me, and like to date people in entirely different fields, you might prefer Harvard.</p>