<p>About the Univ Chicago rep, let me tell you, we went on the tour and even our tour guide fit the stereotype. Very nice guy but very earnest and serious. He mentioned the 'fun comes to die' reputation, said it wasn't true, and then went on to give a fact-filled and boring tour of the facilities. Even my D, who wants to steer clear of 'party schools', was disappointed.</p>
<p>"And especially those spoiled, overprivileged, irresponsible full-paying students "</p>
<p>Hey!!!! Am I taking that the wrog way?</p>
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<p>I think I scared her too much with the little red cup articles from CC, so she did not want to drink, even in high school when she told me she had been to party that served alcohol but she went outside with her friends.
I did temper my suggestion with statement with emphasis that when she does not have school work, she should socialize. She said American beer is very mild comparing to her father's dark beer.
I might also use the term party liberally, I just meant socializing. I know my daughter told me it's mean beer/sex and that is why she's often objected to me referring to her partying in high school.</p>
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With Shrinkrap, I'm wondering about some comments in Columbia_student's post, namely, the point that without partying/drinking a student might "miss out on the college experience." Isn't the view that this is the "college experience" part of the problem?
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<p>I think some kids do bond by partying together. So the college experience is to connect with friends. You can also go to a party and not drink. We also gave her advices on what to do if she does not want to drink.
BTW, the college experience is to do your own lawndry and she is now an expert.</p>
<p>Post #7 reminded me of my favorite college bar; it was called The Library.</p>
<p>Again, I think making this part of the US news rankings is a misguided idea.<br>
A binge drinking rate is not an academic measure. Plenty of really smart kids are big drinkers. And there top professors and offerings at schools with party reputations. Dartmouth, Duke, Vandy, Penn, Williams.. these schools clearly demonstrate that you can have strong academics and LOTS of drinkers. Why should I get brownie points in an already flawed US News ranking system because I don't have a drinking culture? Why stop at drinking? - let's add a drug use measure too. And a smoking measure. How about the percentage of students who exercise? (a sedentary lifestyle can be deadly). And while we're at it, let's add sexual behavior statistics -maybe pregnancy rates? How about the percentage of students who get speeding tickets?<br>
Visit the schools you're interested in and wander around on any given weekend. It's NOT hard to see what the culture is. It's not like you go to Dartmouth and are SHOCKED by the drinking scene. It's not hidden from consumers.
This is a big problem...has been for years. Most of it can be blamed on the students. Some on the administration. The question is WHAT specific things do you want the administration to do? OK, you want to use the rankings to force them to pay attention and do WHAT? Lots of state schools hand out enormous numbers of drinking citations - but it doesn't seem to make a dent (and in PA, you lose your license when you get a citation so the consequences are serious).</p>
<p>I honestly think we are looking at the wrong thing when we blame the schools and not the students for excessive drinking. "My kid drinks too much at college -- there must be something wrong with the school."</p>
<p>"A binge drinking rate is not an academic measure."</p>
<p>It is very, very much an EDUCATIONAL measure (though perhaps not an academic one). Every hour spent in binge drinking or with a hangover is an hour not spent in other educational pursuits - curricular or non-curricular. </p>
<p>In my judgment (and having attended), the academics of lots of the top 50 schools are very, very, very much overrated. Yes, the students are bright - and they would be bright wherever they attended. But you almost never hear of any students at theses schools having ANY academic difficulties - they coast through with gentleman's B-minuses. If the challenge of the work were calibrated to the quality of the students, you should have equal percentages of students flunking classes or dropping out. But it doesn't happen. Once you're in, you are almost guaranteed a ticket out, if you can continue to pay the bill. </p>
<p>They do indeed have top faculty - and if you are inebriated or have a hangover, you are much less likely to take advantage of them.</p>
<p>I agree with dt123: how can we send the kids to college expecting them to transition to being adults responsible for their own behavior.. but expect colleges to act as parents (the old "in loco parentis") to enforce responsible drinking?</p>
<p>dt123- I am with you on that. Most people want to blame their problems on someone else. What about parents taking some responsibility for their kid's action. Marian kid decided not to participate in drinking at one of the biggest party schools, my daughter's school. No one is holding a drink down your kid's throat. Parents should try to teach their kids to make their own decision and not let other people influence them so much. Whether a school was a party school was a never a factor when my daughter was looking at schools. </p>
<p>Columbia_student - I had a similar discussion with my daughter. I told her not to just focus on academics, try to socialize and meet those 13,000 students out there.</p>
<p>Before I point fingers I have to look back at my own college days when the 'best' parties served grain alcohol punch, which was ladled out of garbage cans (lined with trash bags, of course). It tasted like Hawaiian Punch, which most girls found preferable to beer. Ugh.<br>
Was very happy when S1 ruled out schools with heavy frat and party reps on his own during his college search. It just wasn't something he was looking for.</p>
<p>Just adding a thought, though--
Even at schools like S1's which is not known as a particularly big party school, the kids now seem into the habit of pre-gaming, which I'd never heard of until a couple years ago. I HATE it. Doing shots of vodka or some other heavy-duty drink before you even head out for the evening?? If your judgement is impaired before you've even arrived at the party, you're just asking for trouble.</p>
<p>This topic has been raised many times on CC. I'm one of the parents who think it should be perfectly legal to drink at 18. That does not mean you should get intoxicated. It doesn't mean you should "pre-game." But IMO, clamping down on drinking, rather than on drinking to an excess, is a mistake. You end up dividing the social life among drinkers and non-drinkers. </p>
<p>When you do that, the kids in the middle--which are the biggest group--drink more. Young people tend to drink to what they see as the norm. When you make drinking one beer a crime, the non-drinkers drop out of the social scene and create their own. At many colleges--not all, but many--the kids in the non-drinking scene tend to be religious, usually Evangelical Protestants. Kids who are atheists or agnostics or just not all that religious feel left out. Meanwhile, the mean amount of alcohol consumed by those in the mainstream culture increases, and you get more binge drinking. </p>
<p>Sometimes I think we should bring back "3.2" beer. Anyone remember that stuff? It has less alcohol content than regular beer. In some Midwestern states, you could drink it at 18. Yes, there was some teen drunk driving, but nobody died due to the alcohol content in their blood. I've also been on a cruise on which kids 18-20 could drink beer and wine, but not the strong stuff. No shot contests. Some kids got drunk I admit, but nobody was ever in danger of dying. </p>
<p>Yes, it's up to the kids to stay sober. But doesn't anyone remember what peer pressure was like? Especially when you are a freshman, desperate to seem "cool" or whatever the correct term is now? </p>
<p>If I ruled the world, the kids could drink on campus. In my perfect world, you wouldn't be able to drink in your room--only in the student center or on-campus bar. There would be someone to cut you off when you had too much. You would have to eat while imbibing. You'd be limited to beer and wine. There would be stuff to do while drinking--dance, pool, whatever...but NOT beer pong or anything of that ilk.</p>
<p>I honestly think that there would be less binge drinking. I also think that the non-drinkers would be happier.</p>
<p>Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that we've delayed adulthood way too long. You can execute contracts, get married, drive, vote, join the military...but you can't have a beer. It's a shame. I think that the drinking age should be lowered again to 18, and the driving age should be raised to 21.</p>
<p>I just think there should be truth in advertising. If students want to attend schools where 50% of the student body binged at least once in the past two weeks, and 10% of the student body suffered cognitive impairments through alcohol-related blackouts, there should be a ready source of information available to them and to their parents so they can make the right choice.</p>
<p>Back in my day, mid-70's, the drinking age was 18. I remember my freshman year in the dorm. Right away there were the guys who would drink too much all the time, a very small minority, and those like me who enjoyed a beer or two every day when homework was done and a few more on weekends. I have continued this to this day, though now I drink red wine for the cardiac benefits.</p>
<p>We could all see that the hard-drinkers were basically losers. Who needs/wants to drink that much when they are 18? Most of them were gone when their parents got their first semester grades. This was an expensive, private school.</p>
<p>Nobody drank hard liquor, it was too expensive and difficult to manage the supply. 12 oz. is a nice, predictable unit. Honestly, looking back, it was fun and harmless. The current system of driving "underage" drinking underground does not seem to be an improvement.</p>
<p>^^^Mini - agree - just don't think it should be part of the ranking system.
And I agree that all schools should have to publish these stats- maybe on a database on the web. That would take care of the schools that hide these stats now.
Bottom line though is that I agree that it's up to the student to control their behavior.
I went to a party school, got sick a couple of times and learned to moderate my behavior.
So, I don't think we can place all or even most of the blame on the schools. Kids who choose Duke vs Univ of Chicago generally know what they're choosing. Work hard/play hard is something many kids seek out. Maybe some of the parents are clueless, but the kids certainly are not.
It's interesting that the one kid I know who couldn't handle the party scene at Cornell (not even the close to the worst among them) went to Wheaton - an environment that's pretty unique among colleges. Then again, I remember that John Belushi went to Wheaton. Hmmm...</p>
<p>"Why should I get brownie points in an already flawed US News ranking system because I don't have a drinking culture?"</p>
<p>The same reason you get points for graduating 95% of your students. It's one of many indicators that students can expect a quality experience at that school. If you acknowledge that a culture of drinking to excess is a "big problem," it makes sense that schools without the problem should rise in the rankings.</p>
<p>It doesn't really matter whether the fault is the students' or the schools'. It's not the school's fault if their freshmen all have mediocre SAT scores. But the statistic still tells you a lot about what you can expect to find at that school.</p>
<p>^^ If that ever happens be ready to see BYU ranked #1 in the nation.</p>
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For example, nobody should end up at Kenyon surprised by the drinking. It's a notorious party school where drinking has killed one student with alcohol in the last few years. Instead, we hear the euphemism "work hard/play hard" as if it's some kind of selling feature that kids are left to die drunk in snowbanks.
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<p>This same school also had a 100% acceptance rate of their medical school applicants the year my H graduated. How many brownie points would you give Kenyon for this achievement?</p>
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So I'm not sure at all that suppressing campus drinking is a winning strategy for ambitious college presidents.
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<p>Bingo. We have bingo!</p>
<p>IMO, many colleges are directly marketing to and recruiting based on an alcohol fueled social scene.</p>
<p>That is precisely why I want to see binge drinking rates included in the USNEWS rankings formula. Can you imagine being able to sort colleges by binge drinking rate? Can you imagine how high some of the college presidents would jump if the public saw their binge drinking rates?</p>
<p>Interestingly, I sense that there is a strong countervailing demand in the marketplace, too. Students who didn't drink in high school and aren't looking for their freshman dorms to feel like overnight holding cells for Otis the Town Drunk. The percentage of college students who don't drink is at record levels.</p>