<p>Thanks Sybbie. My family are regular people too, just make high incomes because we benefited from great educations. </p>
<p>A friend recommended a private college counselor to get a view other than the one given by my daughter's school counselor which is overly optimistic in my view. I spent an hour on the phone with her today.</p>
<p>Her opinion is that there are so few high scoring URM candidates, those who have high stats from strong schools are hard to turn down at most colleges even while the press is on to recruit low income minorities. While I hope she's correct, time will tell!</p>
<p>HI UCMary, I did find that often my daughter being middle-class was often a negative. Not so much with institutions but often with other Black students and sometimes teachers. We've always paid full tuition for her (and will at Amherst) because of our income. She has travelled world-wide since she was an infant and has had experiences that most don't expect for an African American. I as well as my husband have doctorates and her aunts and uncles are similarly educated. When she's gone to most of these summer programs, she was often one of the only Black students who wasn't in a special program or financial aid. She said she often found that white educators weren't accustomed to interacting with Black students who weren't in a special program or "at risk". They immediately assumed she was in Prep for Prep, ABC, or some other program. I think those programs are great and necessary but all Black kids aren't in them. One of the things she noticed about Amherst was the fact that she ran into other Black kids who had similar experiences to her own. My daughter is very black identified and definitely has no problems interacting with Blacks at all (both my husband and I are originally from the South and have deep roots there). Plus, the ten years in New York were spent steeped in African American cultural institutions and people (among others). I think it's great if your daughter's GC is being supportive and positive. All of the parents of middle-class Black kids that I know felt that their GCs often discouraged the choices of their children (particularly if they were aspiring to the Ivies or elite LAC). Anyway, this is worthy of a study. Good luck to you. If your daughter is high achieving, she should be fine.</p>
<p>Thank you Impw. Indeed most of the black students at DDs school are scholarship recipients and this is the experience of the college couselor there.</p>
<p>I am not trying to make a political statement or pat high earners on the back so I've been surprised by some of the comments here. Finding families similar to our own in terms of income and how we have educated our children has proven difficult.</p>
<p>DD is most accomplished and well liked by teachers and peers of all stripes. Her family includes her parents, 2 MDs, and range to extended family that are high school drop outs. Because of her advantages, I have looked at her possibilities as though she would get no URM boost which means low at Princeton and Wharton!</p>
<p>While your peers at college might not care where you come from, the former ivy admissions rep I chatted with today confirmed the admissions committee will be interested.</p>
<p>Good luck to your DD at Amherst, my DD will be lucky if she has an equally wonderful school to attend.</p>
<p>We are Asian. I am going to tell you something I know based on my son's close friends. My son has some close friends who are AA or Hispanic. He will attend one of the HYP schools. Since you want to know about AA kids, I will talk about only AA boys and girls from an elite boarding school or similar school outside of northeast. I know some of these kids very well as my son is close to them and talks about them. Believe me they all are very bright and motivated and they can compete with anyone anytime anywhere. </p>
<p>His prom date who happens to be Afro American girl will also attend the same school my son will attend. She is exceptionally bright and come from a low income family. I know the girl very well and she is awesome. She is intellectually very bright and thus my son asked her as a prom date. My son's another best friend will attend Stanford. I know this family somewhat. She comes from a single family but girl is very bright. I am not sure but close to seven additional girls will attend the elite colleges. I do not know about their financial situation. </p>
<p>Since we are talking about AA, I will address the bright AA boys. Boys have done exceedingly well too. I can not say exact number who will attend but may be close to 10 AA kids will attend HYPMS. Two of them are very intelligent and come from poor families. I do not know about rest of the kid’s financial background. </p>
<p>In previous academic years, AA ( I am just trying to talk about AA kids) kids did exceedingly well in terms of college matriculation. Two kids who were close to my son, come from very well to do families. Their families were trustees and board members of the elite colleges in USA. They were placed very well in college admission. </p>
<p>To naysayer, despite being AA, not a single kid relied on it. Their work ethics were second to none. They have exceptional high GPAs, SATS, APs. They did put their soul in ECs. They have nice personalities. They all are very nice kids the one every one wants to have. If I can say they all are similar in achievements like BarackObama. These kids have put their soul in achieving their goals irrespective of their financial situations. I do believe that based on their achievements, they would have been in elite colleges without their skin color. </p>
<p>If you have any question, please PM me I can give you personal advice based on my experience. Good luck.</p>
<p>I have changed a lot as I see how hard work has been put toagther by these kids. Ther are bright and motivated. Most of these AA kids ( race is uniimporatnt as they can come from any race) are going in based on merit and drive to excel. Bravo to these kids.</p>
<p>The kids who are AA and have not so stellar GPAS have done well too. But so is the rest of the kids from other races.</p>
<p>I am not sure how much input I can add to this thread but I am AfAm w/ a middle or upper middle income. My D is currently a junior in a rural h/s. Her GC has not been helpful or encouraging. D has taken the most challenging courses and received all A/A- , but is not viewed as one of the bright students at her school. My H thinks it is racial stereotyping but I believe D is viewed more as humanities/arts focused versus math/science focused. Regardless, I dont think the GC evaluation will truly reflect Ds accomplishments or abilities.</p>
<p>TutuTaxi, a strong personal essay, enthusiasm from the applicant, emphatic support from a teacher stated in a recommendation, and an in-person meeting with an Admissions official (if possible) can overcome the the non-support of a guidance counselor. College admissions representatives face this scenario all of the time.</p>
<p>TutuTaxi - My family is not AfAm, but I am responding to your statement about your daughter being more humanities/art focused rather than math/science focused. My daughter (now a rising college junior) was in a similar situation in hs, as most of the "top" students were oriented toward science and math, while her strengths are in humanities/art/languages. She, fortunately, became close to one of of her AP history teachers who actually supervised her in an independent study of AP Art History (on their own, totally outside the structure of our h.s.) and wrote excellent recommendations for her. I guess I am suggesting that it would be good if your D can get a strong recommendation from a teacher who recognizes her talents. I don't think what the guidance counselors say counts for too much anyway (at least at our school). My D had great success in college admissions, although she took only "honors" calc, not AP calc, and no AP sciences. She is now doing double major in Asian Studies (with Chinese language) and Studio Art. For her science/math requirements, she took courses intended for non-majors and had no trouble whatsoever. I have wondered if, because there are so many bright students aspiring to study biology/pre-med, engineering/CS, and finance/economics these days, that perhapas an excellent student interested in humanities and artistic fields might have an advantage.</p>
<p>EDIT - I apologize to other posters for side-tracking from the main topic of this discussion.</p>
<p>Mary,
This is a very interesting thread and I just wanted to share my thoughts on it. I am a white student attending a very competitive public high-school in a very affluent town. Our town is 95% white, and because of lack of "diversity" we have a METCO program where inner-city black kids are given the oppurtunity to attend our school. I find it interesting that the black students who live in our town have actually been hurt by this process when it comes to college admissions. Many of the METCO students get accepted to very elite schools even though they do not have substantial extra-curriculars or take the most challenging classes. However, the affluent AA students who live in our town seem to have very similar acceptance rates to the other affluent white students. </p>
<p>Note: What I just said is somewhat of a generalization and not exactly related to what you are asking! Sorry! But I just wanted to say what an interesting thread this is, and how I had never really thought about this issue!</p>
<p>It is not specifically because of their race that they are judged against each other (the METCO vs. non-METCO) but instead their socioeconomic status. The inner-city kids have went through sooo much more than the wealthier kids from the suburbs and deserve to be commended by gaining an edge in admissions.</p>
<p>I too have found that the racial stereotyping is very hard to overcome. The first year my daughter was in high school, she had a black guidance counselor. I <em>only</em> sent her to public school because of him. (She was already accepted to private school with scholarship $. He called me during the summer and said, "I just had a conversation with XYZ about your daughter and I want you to know that I have daughters. I understand your concerns and I will personally take care of your daughter.") He did and, at the end of that year, he left. We've never replaced that void. </p>
<p>It has been a fight through the school system to get my daughter's talents recognized. She has had more success with individual teachers and administrators but she has also run across teachers who will stereotype. That factor has impacted some grades and classes. </p>
<p>Honestly, most middle and upper-middle class African-American kids here attend private or parochial schools. I really think it's because of the problem with stereotypes, getting kids into honors classes, finding the right peer group for the kids and having the kids recommended for programs/ achievements. It just doesn't happen to AA kids as much as it should.</p>