<p>I applied to UPenn LPS and got in, and am waiting on Columbia. I'm wondering if anyone else has done, or is doing the same?</p>
<p>I've done some searching and it seems like both programs have similar if not identical admissions standards. Anyone have any experience with this?</p>
<p>What exactly is your question?</p>
<p>You’ve done some searching? Haven’t you already applied to both? You should know what the admissions criteria/standards are for each.</p>
<p>My question is has anyone applied to BOTH UPenn LPS and Columbia GS, and if so, what were their results?</p>
<p>I’m really interested to see if there were synergies between admitted students at LPS and GS – considering I’m waiting on GS and have been admitted into LPS (though their process seems to be much faster).</p>
<p>I’m not sure that synergy is the right word - it’d fit better when talking about Columbia GS and Sciences Po, perhaps. I know that a lot of Columbia students apply to Brown and/or Yale, too. But, Penn LPS isn’t typically a part of the conversation.</p>
<p>I wonder why - I was told by a Columbia rep that their nearly identical programs within their respective schools - except LPS also has more night courses as an option for students who work full time (though you can’t complete your degree entirely at night).</p>
<p>I’m not sure who said that or why. The cohort of elite schools offering specifically non-traditional education are:</p>
<p>Columbia GS
Brown RUE
Yale Eli Whitney</p>
<p>In a separate group, I’d put:</p>
<p>Harvard Extension
Penn LPS</p>
<p>I’d like to qualify that. The first cohort is, simply put, more inconvenient. You are expected to take classes with everyone else and function as a peer in the undergraduate population. You can opt out of that experience at Penn LPS - in fact, you can opt out all together, taking online classes. At Harvard, you get a different degree and experience your education, predominantly, outside of the normal peer group.</p>
<p>Also, those two schools allow non-traditional students to enter their traditional undergraduate schools. They are, simply put, alternative educations.</p>
<p>At Columbia, Brown, and Yale you are a student. Period. You have the same responsibilities and inconveniences and rewards as anyone else.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, my personal experience is just as hellojan describes. I was considering Columbia GS, Yale EWSP, and Brown RUE, as well as decent schools to which I could apply as a “traditional” undergraduate transfer student, despite my “non-traditional” status; namely Berkeley, UCLA and NYU.</p>
<p>The separation between LPS and the College just seemed too substantial to me, based on the limited research I did.</p>
<p>MC, were you accepted to EW and RUE?</p>
<p>@bernabeu: I did not actually apply to either Yale or Brown. These were the other programs I was strongly considering when it was time to think about coming back to school. However, over the summer prior to the time during which I would be applying, other aspects of my life moved me to NYC. Thus, Columbia became my priority.</p>
<p>Since I was here, I was also planning on applying to NYU (CAS). In a nice turn of events, however, I learned of my acceptance to GS on the day that I was to submit my NYU application. It was subsequently not submitted. ;-)</p>
<p>@MC Good thing you didn’t pay the application fee for NYU and find out the next day that you got accepted lol</p>
<p>Yale’s EWSP is really a beast unto itself. Last fall, they took less than 5% or so: the acceptance rate for the Eli Whitney program was actually lower than the rate for traditional undergraduates. 5 out of 120 were taken. I was one of the 115 who were not. That stung, but I was still drunk at their tailgate against Princeton last fall cheering for the Bulldogs (I have friends there) and I’ll be applying for graduate school there. What can I say? I love Yale. </p>
<p>GS has a much higher acceptance rate than EWSP and a much higher acceptance rate than CC and SEAS. Admissions officers say that this is because the program is self-selecting. I won’t delve into that argument here. </p>
<p>I don’t know much about those hippies over at Brown do. Lol. </p>
<p>Either way: good luck wherever you end up.</p>
<p>Posted this in another forum but here’s my reply in regards to UPenn LPS:</p>
<p>At Columbia GS, you take the same classes as undergraduate students, and ALMOST have the same requirements (I think there’s a one or two course difference). You can take night courses, which are available to traditional undergraduates as well. The amount of night courses is very limited. These night courses give working GS students an easier option to attend class. Your not required to take night classes at all. Your degree is awarded by the School of General Studies at Columbia University.</p>
<p>At UPenn LPS, you have the option of taking night courses (which are open to traditional students), or regular daytime courses. This is because a lot of LPS people work. You are not required to take night classes at all. The amount of night courses is very limited. Your degree requirements are 100% identical to traditional students, the only exception being your able to (if given permission) opt for Pass/Fail in your foreign language courses. Your degree, because LPS is a division within the College of Arts and Sciences, is awarded by The College of Arts and Sciences - not LPS. Thus, at UPenn LPS, there’s less distinction degree wise between traditional and non-traditional students then there is at GS. In fact, there’s none (except you cannot participate in varsity level sports, which I believe at GS you can).</p>
<p>Housing at UPenn LPS, at least on campus, like GS, is segregated.</p>
<p>Another poster claimed you can take all online courses to finish your degree = this is not true. The College of Arts and Sciences offers a handful (between 2-4) online courses per semester that are available to all students (including LPS). These courses are also available during the summer.</p>
<p>At LPS however, if you choose to take night courses, you’re only limited to general ed/core classes. Once you reach upper divisional courses, you must take them during the day - they don’t offer those courses there. If you search through the UPenn forum, you’ll read traditional CAS/Wharton students who’ve taken night courses along side LPS students who’ve chosen to done so - and stated the quality of the class is identical.</p>
<p>At Columbia GS, your not able to use Columbia College networking resources - as has been stated by numerous GSers. At UPenn LPS, because your part of the College of Arts and Sciences, this is not the case. All alumni networks are available to you.</p>
<p>I haven’t verified this at Columbia, but at UPenn there is a “one university policy” which allows students within any undergraduate college to take courses in another. Because LPS students are in CAS, they can take courses in Wharton, and the other undergraduate colleges.</p>
<p>The reason I know so much is once I was admitted into UPenn, I setup phone conversations with my advisor, as well as emailed the chairs of the economics department for undergraduates within CAS and Wharton. Economics as an undergraduate at CAS is nearly identical to Wharton, so the two departments collaborate a lot.</p>
<p>I’m really interested in Columbia simply because:</p>
<p>– It’s not too far from where I’m living now
– Columbia business school is where value investing was born, and I’d love to try and get into their dual BA/MBA program
– Transfer evaluation process is much more flexible</p>
<p>That being said, after all the research I’ve done, I’d actually have to say that as a UPenn LPS student, you’re more of a traditional student than at GS. I think the big distinction people have in their mind is Columbia, outside of academia, has a much more famous name. </p>
<p>I saw a few students rank the non-traditional programs. I’ve done tons of research on this (beyond reading websites, calling people, and being annoying), and I’d rank them in traditionally as:</p>
<p>Yale Eli Whitney Program - exactly identical, no difference, no exceptions, compared with traditional students. Crazy tough to get into</p>
<p>UPenn LPS - Degree is identical with no school distinction (no GS, EXTENSION), or degree distinction. You can take night courses up to a point, and can opt to get your foreign language pass/fail. Your an alumni of the College of Arts and Sciences, not GS, or extension, or anything of the sort. As an admitted transfer student within LPS, you’re required to go through the same transfer evaluation process as other students. Here, you log into something called “XCAT” where you post the school, semester, course name, and syllabus (if you don’t have the syllabus, you’re not getting transfer credit). Then, you submit the course to the corresponding department (mathematics courses to math, history to history, ect). These evaluators don’t know if your in CAS, Wharton, or the like - and simply evaluate your course to determine if its “Penn quality.” These evaluators are made up of department chairs and faculty.</p>
<p>Columbia GS - I put GS below UPenn because your degree is given by GS within Columbia, not CC (which is different than Penn because your degree as an LPS student is awarded by Penns equivalent of CC). Your alumni network is segregated, and recruiters can look on your transcript and see your in GS, where as at Penn, your advisor and you are the only ones that know. The transfer evaluation process here seems much more flexible (which I LOVE!). Here, from what I’ve read/been told, your transcript determines which courses you’re hoping will transfer, and your advisor makes the call - not the specific departments the courses correlate with. Thus, there’s more wiggle room if your history course wasn’t as in depth or difficult as a Columbia course.</p>
<p>This being said, I don’t think there’s any distinction in the quality of education at any of these three programs - their all fantastic I’m sure. I’m simply distinguishing between the traditional aspects of these “non-traditional programs” and their non-traditional aspects.</p>
<p>Another thing I want to point out as a UPenn admittee, that attracts me to Columbia, is that transfer evaluation process I spoke about above.</p>
<p>I’ve begun to go through it, and IT IS TOUGH! These evaluators have NO PROBLEM rejecting courses. Most of you may start to think (this guy was at The University of Phoenix or something). I started at Santa Monica College (very reputable community college), and transferred to a top 30 university. The’ve rejected courses from both institutions I’ve been at.</p>
<p>Also, if you’ve taken any math courses below Calculus, they automatically will reject them.</p>
<p>Lastly, if you’ve taken 2 semesters of english, they will only accept one. Once you begin at LPS, you’re required to take their one semester equivalent of what they didn’t accept. If you get an A in it, then your 1 course transfers. If you get less than an A, you’ve got another semester of english ahead of you.</p>
<p>So, for those interested in UPenn, make sure your willing to possibly spend extra time getting your degree – which is something I’m not down, whatsoever, to do lol!</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about Browns program - wasn’t interested in going over there.</p>
<p>There are quite a few errors in the previous post. Namely, if you graduate from Lps your not an alumni of the College of Arts and Sciences (CAS). Your an alumni of the School of Arts and Sciences (SAS), there is a difference. Second, there is a palpable division between the “traditional grads” and those enrolled in Lps. I cannot think of a single person that would put Lps above GS, let alone attend Lps over GS. I’m not going to go into details but a quick search of the school will provide ample information on the indubitable separation wig respects to he urged experience. GSers, whether CC kids like it or not, are wholly immersed (academically speaking) into the undergraduate “experience.” when you graduate from GS, you will fill out your resume (like ALL other Columbia ugrads) with: BA, (insert major here) Columbia University. End of story.</p>
<p>Sorry for the typos/sloppy writing but I wrote that last post in cab and I’m still not used to the iPhone touch screen typing.</p>
<p>GS has its own subforum here and LPS doesn’t, I think that counts for something.</p>
<p>TSAR:</p>
<p>While I’m hoping to get into Columbia for numerous reasons, unfortunately, until you can provide evidence of your statement, I can’t agree with you.</p>
<p>“Namely, if you graduate from Lps your not an alumni of the College of Arts and Sciences (CAS). Your an alumni of the School of Arts and Sciences (SAS), there is a difference.”</p>
<p>—This is directly from the LPS website, “Is an LPS undergraduate degree equivalent to a College of Arts and Sciences undergraduate degree?
LPS students earn the same degree, receive the same diploma, and in many cases study with the same professors as traditional, day school undergraduates in the College of Arts and Sciences.” —</p>
<p>“Second, there is a palpable division between the “traditional grads” and those enrolled in Lps.” </p>
<p>— Please name them. In my research, I’ve yet to find one, other than LPS students cannot play varsity ivy sports. Where as at GS, your a very distinct crowd within the GS group compared to CC in terms of degree, alumni, alumni availability/networking—</p>
<p>“I cannot think of a single person that would put Lps above GS, let alone attend Lps over GS.”</p>
<p>—Why? Columbia does have a more famous name, especially in the liberal arts department for undergraduates. UPenn though has a very respectbale name in the world of academia, especially in the world of business. Further, as an LPS undergraduate you can take Wharton courses, and put that on your resume. I think the people you’re referring to are those whom attend GS simply to amplify their resume and self worth via universally recognized prestige, specifically by those who don’t know of UPenn and its high academic accomplishments. By your previous statement in terms of the degree awarded to LPS students, I’m assuming you know very little about the program, and have made some quick judgements. This is fine with me however, as its only natural.</p>
<p>I’m not going to go into details but a quick search of the school will provide ample information on the indubitable separation wig respects to he urged experience. GSers, whether CC kids like it or not, are wholly immersed (academically speaking) into the undergraduate “experience.” </p>
<p>– Agreed. As a GS student, your socially and intellectually immersed into the Columbia experience. As is if you’re at LPS. The great thing about LPS is if you want to avoid that immersion as much as possible, you can take night courses while completing your core. Once that runs out though, your stuck with the immersion. </p>
<p>“when you graduate from GS, you will fill out your resume (like ALL other Columbia ugrads) with: BA, (insert major here) Columbia University. End of story.”</p>
<p>Again, agreed! The question is, if someone asks you which college you attended within Columbia, or looks at your transcript, it will say:</p>
<p>Columbia University
School of General Studies
B.A in Economics</p>
<p>Or the alternative</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania
College of Arts and Sciences
B.A. in Economics</p>
<p>Ask yourself this: If you’re trying to get a job as GS alumni, and meet a CC alumni and they see “Columbia University BA in Economics” on your resume, what if they start bringing up their college experience with you as a student of CC. How will you respond? Will you try and find similarities and pass the conversation further, or will you bring up your a GS graduate? Further, if he decides to hire you and his HR checks with Columbia to verify GPA, Degree, etc, and finds you were in GS and brings this up with your past interviewer, do you think this could be a cause of concern for him that you didn’t bring this up? Did you dishonestly, via omission, try and scape by as a CC alumni? Is there a difference in a CC graduates mind between CC and GS?</p>
<p>These are the things that come up in my head as I await my GS admittance letter, or rejection, and what also stays in my mind as I weigh LPS as an option.</p>
<p>Now, I’m not bagging on GS what so ever intentionally – I want to be admitted! I am however, sharing the FACTS with you all</p>
<p>Here’s an idea…talk about Penn’s relative merits here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/</a> . </p>
<p>I realize that you’re trying to keep your options open. That’s fine. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that singing the praises of what seems to amount to your safety school on the Columbia/GS board is really a bit tacky. </p>
<p>The way it’s beginning to read is that you’re bracing yourself for a rejection from Columbia and so you’re beginning to paint Penn as a better option. Sour grapes. </p>
<p>If you get a yes from Penn, by all means go there.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Oh, come now. Looking objectively, you can see that this thread is serving to expose some specific insecurities on both sides. </p>
<p>That’s not what this forum is for.</p>
<p>I can see the value in using CC to exorcise frustrations and admission/rejection panic - and that’s something that, as a community, deserves to be carefully monitored for our own group sanity. But, maybe, let’s not be too quick to limit what we think is and isn’t relevant to our discussion.</p>
<p>That said, where else can Philly discuss GS vs LPS? Just at the LPS page? I think it makes sense to ask that question here and Philly has the right to defend any position that other posters take issue with.</p>
<p>The College of Arts and Sciences at UPenn (CAS) is different from the much larger School of Arts and Sciences (SAS). There is a difference. Good luck getting into GS, but I would not equate GS with LPS. There is a reason that GS is your target school (beyond the notion of value investing/MBA program at Columbia), after all, UPenn has a better business department. You might not admit it, but deep down, you know that GS is better program/option.</p>
<p>“Did you dishonestly, via omission, try and scape by as a CC alumni?”</p>
<p>By writing: BA (major), Columbia University on your resume, your not, as you so “eloquently” put it, trying to “scape by as a CC alumni.” You are honestly stating that you got your BA from COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. I never said anything about CC. Besides, any CC alum with reason, would KNOW that, as a GS graduate, and by proxy a Columbia University grad, you went through, ostensibly, the same hoops that they did to graduate.</p>
<p>This is false:
University of Pennsylvania
College of Arts and Sciences
B.A. in Economics</p>
<p>it would read:
University of Pennsylvania
(School) of Arts and Sciences
B.A. in Economics</p>
<p>A UPenn grad from the CAS will know.</p>