<p>The courtesy waitlist is generally considered a place for a candidate with a special connection to the school or some other factor. They don't want to reject the candidate but they don't accept the candidate either.</p>
<p>Sure would be good to know which category my son falls into as well!</p>
<p>Justamom, there are many, many reasons for a courtesy waitlist. It is not considered such a blow to waitlist a kid as opposed to rejecting him. So a courtesy waitlist is often used for kids who come heavily recommended by people important to the university, often legacies. Also when a college has a special reason to accept a kid from a high school that is not an obvious pick, while not wanting kids who fit that category more, they will often waitlist rather that reject those kids. For example,Harvard accepted a kid who was ranked lower, with lower SATs than the valedictorian. The val was waitlisted. In that case it was truly a courtesy waitlist because H wasn't accepting off the waitlist. Everyone was on the courtesy waitlist in that case. But, the val from the previous year with even higher stats was outright rejected. No one else at that school was accepted that particular year. According to a teacher I know there, it is common, pretty much customary to waitlist the val if not accepting her, if other kids with lower ranking are accepted, at that particular school. Happens regularly. Also with athletic admits from a particular high school, if higher ranked, more academic kids are not accepted, they are often waitlisted. </p>
<p>In many ways, it's a nice way to tell a kid that he would have been accepted, if there were room even when you know there is not going to be room. The kids on the short waitlist often have a good chance for admissions. They may have a talent that the school is eyeing in case the yield is not good in that area. They are kids that they would have accepted but truly could not because of uncertainties with who would accept, and they be the first called if space does open up. I know that our school, there have been times when a college would call the guidance counselors and ask if a student was serious on a waitlist. That is a very good sign that he/she is in line for a spot unless too many kids accept (which happens). </p>
<p>That sometimes too many kids accept, is why I puzzle over this immediate waitlist, where kids are contacted before the class is formed. I know too many kids who are last minute or do not bother to return those not accept cards. How on earth could colleges know within such a short period of time that they could accept off the waitlist? It seems like the waitlist is getting a new usage.</p>
<p>Does anyone here know if in prior years, colleges went so quickly to the waitlist, well before the 5/1 deadline for acceptees? I don't remember this at all in my other two college app years.</p>
<p>Okay - questions - </p>
<p>Why would any college care about the feelings of kids who apply?
Especially the Harvard's of this world who get "first pick". Harvard may not have known they were not taking from the waitlist until after they formed a waitlist - in other words did they waitlist EA applicants (they have EA right?) before knowing how the rest of the class would form.</p>
<p>I think colleges can go to the waitlist before May 1 when their yield is not what they would expect. If it gets to mid-April they certainly know from past data what they could expect to get by May 1.</p>
<p>My daughter is waitlisted. At not an elite school but a school that has "grown up" and gotten more popular over the past several years.
They have not gone to the waitlist yet but will "soon" - as per email last Friday. </p>
<p>I personally think if a college uses a "courtesy" waitlist it is demeaning and crueler than a rejection. I can't see any benefit to the school or the applicant.</p>
<p>What do you guys think of a waitlist that is three times larger than the size of the incoming class or one that is larger than the number of students who were admitted? Yes, I do think that some schools use courtesy waitlists for exactly some of the reasons listed above......Demeaning and cruel? Not really, just foolish...we treated them like rejections....</p>
<p>Courtesy waitlists are often used for legacy applicants - the schools hope that the alum feels a bit better that their kid was waitlisted and not initially rejected.</p>
<p>Justamom, kids and parents do feel better about being waitlisted over being rejected. There is that feeling that the kid would have been accepted had there been room, and you know what, that may well be. It's just that there is no room, and not going to be any room. The kids that are rejected often feel that the message is that you are not a match for our school. Two different messages entirely. So a courtesy waitlist does not necessarily mean, they are just trying to save your feelings. THey are sending a message that way too. </p>
<p>Certain schools are good feeders to some colleges. They send a lot of kids to the college. Yes, even HPY like some highschools over others because of the quality of those apps. You can see which ones they are by where they go visit. You don't see them in certain schools are neighborhoods, and always in others. Colleges do not like to insult or embarrass those counselors because they often work with them. So a waitlist is face saving for all concerned when a kid who is highly recommended, high grades, high test scores, but just not with an extra that the school wants enough to sacrifice those basics and still accept another kid. It sends the message that the kid is qualified, would have been accepted because of his profile, but we needed some other students with different majors, skills, experiences, background, ethnic type to round out the class with lots of diversity. </p>
<p>Alums often feel better when their kids are waitlisted. Just not enough room, instead of no match.</p>
<p>Also, you are not told which waitlist you are on. So you always hope.</p>
<p>Cpt,
I'm not sure this kind of waitlisting is new so much as it has become more apparent given the rest of the admissions crunch.</p>
<p>At our house, S rejected his waitlist offer. In fairness, he was pretty ambivalent about that school all along, but after the school had personally recruited him and then deferred and waitlisted him, it was proof to him that they were looking for something he did not value nearly as highly as they apparently did.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The idea of a "courtesy" waitlist is courtesy not so much to the kid as to other people who may have supported the application (including involved alumni parents, grandparents, etc.).</p></li>
<li><p>So what if a college wants to use its waitlist in the way cptofthehouse describes? It's taking a pretty big risk, in that it may not get a crack at students it actually wants. But I can see using the waitlist as a legitimate strategy to find out which of a group of students really, really wanted to go to your college and which were using it as a safety, and baking that planning into your acceptance strategy. Also, leaving a little room to fix "mistakes" called to your attention by trustees, significant donors, feeder schools, etc. It may not be pretty or live up to the highest standards of transparency, but it may be an effective way to run an institution. (By and large, I'm thinking about LACs here, not HYP-type schools so much. The times when it has looked to me like something like this was going on, it was with LACs.)</p></li>
<li><p>Super-large waitlists at selective institutions: </p></li>
</ol>
<p>The randomness of admissions at the top of the food chain means that the kid Chicago waitlisted may well have gotten into Princeton and has no intention of accepting a waitlist place. I suspect, even at Harvard, etc., that lots of students don't accept a place on the list, and that the percentage who stay on the list and would accept an offer drops precipitously once you go below the top 5-6 colleges. Furthermore, I think to some extent elite colleges may use the waitlist to fill unexpected highly-specific slots: if Harvard admitted two offensive tackles, and both wound up going elsewhere, and the football coach is sobbing on the admissions dean's doorstep, they want at least a couple of offensive tackles on the waitlist. </p>
<p>And, again, once you dip below the HYP level the math changes pretty quickly. There aren't many more (and may not be any more) than 8-9 colleges where more than 40% of the kids they accept RD enroll (ED programs often disguise an RD yield around 33%, even at very highly rated institutions). My guess is that you (if you're not Harvard) may need to offer waitlist places to 10 offensive tackles in order to make certain that you can get an offensive tackle from the waitlist if you really need to. Multiply that times the number of slots that someone may be tracking, and you get a pretty big waitlist, even before courtesy comes into play (or any other element discussed here).</p>
<p>I never heard of anyone clearing a waitlist so early. My oldest cleared one waitlist and it was not until well in the summer, which was very late; most waitlist matters were done by June. But cripes, I was reading posts of waitlists clearing pretty soon after some of the acceptances came out. Do you know in past years of kids clearing the waitlist before May 1?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Justamom, kids and parents do feel better about being waitlisted over being rejected
[/quote]
</p>
<p>well my daughter is waitlisted and I don't feel better about it and neither does she. The limbo is not healthy and she can't move on. She is not a legacy and is very competitive for admission.
This school has been her #1 school which is why she accepted the waitlist offer. I personally think she was not admitted because her jr year grades were "poor" - she had health problems and missed a lot of school.</p>
<p>Anyway a lot of kids who apply to very selective schools apply here as well -
application stats last year were:
9330 applications - this year nearly 9500
3869 acceptances for a class of 1286.
Now get this they waitlisted 1211 applicants last year and pulled in 39 off the waitlist.
What we don't know is how many on the waitlist got offers for them to get 39.
But - I find it hard to believe you need to make a waitlist the size of the freshman class and that you need to have a list of 1200 to get 39 acceptances.
Do a lot of kids stay on the waitlist just so they don't get a rejection and then reject the waitlist offer?</p>
<p>I am trying to explain to my D that she doesn't have a chance but she is holding out hope. yuk.</p>
<p>Lots of waitlist activity being reported in the college admissions forum.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, Justamom. The waitlist caused us trouble too. But when all is said and done, parents and kids end up liking to say they were waitlisted over being rejected. It works better when you know you are a courtesy--when the school is accepting NO ONE off the waitlist so it is all courtesy. </p>
<p>I'm sure there are kids who are staying on the waitlist for spite, but there are many kids like your D who are really hoping for a spot. My close friend's daughter was wl at Georgetown and Penn, and it really caused a lot of grief as she so wanted to go to either of those schools, and could not get her mind on her choice of school that accepted her. SHe was courtesy waitlisted, in my opinion, but that is a hard one to swallow, and she would never have believed that. She revisited both schools and pleaded her case; it really was painful. </p>
<p>They do not need a list of 1200 for 39 acceptances. They might have a true list of about 60 and the rest are courtesy. Sometimes, a GC can find out if there is a chance in H that a student can clear the list, or if it's a really not a good possibility (meaning forget it, you're a courtesy). That might get things rolling the right way.</p>
<p>We know someone (this is firsthand experience, not urban legend) who was offered a spot off the waitlist at JHU around the third week of April last year.</p>
<p>JHS,
S2 is a defensive tackle. Sounds like he should learn the other side, too. :)</p>
<p>We are in waitlist misery x 2. Twins both waitlisted at 4 schools and struggling to stay positive.</p>
<p>i know this is in the parent's forum and i'm a kid, but i just want to say that from a kid's perspective, waitlisting is much, much worse. we have waited SO long to hear whether or not our colleges want us, and sure, when i logged on to the penn and brown websites, i expected to get rejected, and i felt better when i saw i was waitlisted. but being waitlisted for these months and not knowing when or if you'll get that lucky call is horrible. waitlists give you that tiny bit of hope that you'll get in, and you want to believe it soooo badly, but the truth is, you probably won't ever get that call. i'm not saying that schools shouldn't have waitlists, because it's very useful for them, but it is pure misery for us kids.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - thanks for your support.</p>
<p>I know my daughter has done all she can. She has done really well senior year, excellent grades in tough courses, increased SAT's in Dec, visited, etc.
The GC sent her 3rd qtr report card and will send final transcripts which will be ready early June.</p>
<p>The GC made it seem like that was all that could be done - are you saying if the GC calls then she has a better chance?</p>
<p>I wouldn't care but my daughter has no interest in attending any of the 5 other schools to which she was accepted. If she goes where we deposited she already said she will transfer out. Not the best attitude to bring.</p>
<p>trackie10x - you hit the nail on the head - you feel better initially but worse over the long haul. It would be better to get the rejection over with. Then at least you can move on.</p>
<p>JAKNd - I guess everything is amplified with twins - I am sorry for your misery.</p>
<p>I believe if the GC calls then you have a better chance. GC is in it for the long haul - do me a favor to take this good student that REALLY wants to go to your school, in the future I will promote your school to my students. I have known admission reps wining and dining GCs to get more applicants to their schools.</p>
<p>Our school GC does go to bat aggressively for kids on the wl. Kids do clear the wl regularly, but who knows if that is the reason. However, there have been times when the GC can get the inside scoop of whether someone has much of a chance (which usually means no chance if it's very little chance). That can effectively end some of the agony. I have seen that happen. However, if your GC has not dealt with this college and is not used to dealing with adcoms at that level, you are not going to get much info. Still, the GC can reiterate that your D will go to this college as soon as she is admitted, that she really is eager to go there, and would be a good candidate. That means more coming from the GC. You can ask him to communicate that to the college. Good luck. I do know how she and you feel.</p>
<p>After reading the waitlist letters our GC told my twin D that he thought it was best just to update with grades and not call. I think we could go on forever with the second guessing of what we did or did not do.</p>