<p>My son would like to study math and is looking into the University of Cambridge. The application requires that he apply to a specific college and he has no idea which one to pick. I understand that all the colleges offer math, but I am thinking that some may be stronger than others. Is anyone familiar with the different colleges and whether some colleges have a stronger math faculty/department? </p>
<p>Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.</p>
<p>My experience with Cambridge is somewhat dated except for some recent experience with my daughter so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Undergraduate study at the the University of Cambridge is very very different from US undergraduate study. You generally read only one subject for three to four years at Cambridge. The US is four years and much of your education is actually outside your “major”. Applying to Cambridge is through both the COPA initial application and the UCAS application. You do not have to pick one College. You can do a “open” application. Not all Colleges are open to you as some are for women only and some are only for graduate students. There are a lot of different reasons for people to pick certain Colleges. You live and eat and socialize within your College and do your supervisions with the tutors at your College. Quality of food and lodgings was very important in my day. Costs for lodgings used to be different in different Colleges as well. Some Colleges are more prestigious than others. Some Colleges are more central and some are a good hike out side the town. Chances for acceptance tended to be different for different subjects in different Colleges.
If you are applying from the US the most important qualifications will be your IB numbers and or your SAT and AP numbers. You will probably need an interview and you may very well have to take some sort of British exam or Cambridge exam in math. There is very little financial aid for non UK/EU students so you should be prepared for 3-4 years of education and travel costs.
There is a website called the student room which should help you with more detailed and up to date information about the Colleges in Cambridge.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for chiming in. I have found the student room to be very helpful!</p>
<p>I’m a PhD student at Cambridge, having completed a master’s there too, and just want to point out that your question about whether “certain colleges have stronger math departments/faculty” doesn’t make sense at Cambridge (or Oxford for that matter). I’m an American and can tell you that isn’t what the word “college” means here. Faculty/departmental buildings reside outside the colleges and the weekly college supervisions for undergraduates can be supervised by faculty members from colleges other than the one to which one belongs. </p>
<p>Colleges are primarily where students live, eat, and socialize. One isn’t any “better” than another in any academic sense, but one might strike your fancy in a way that another doesn’t. For example, the older colleges look older and have an older feel to them. But some are plagued by tourists (King’s, Trinity, etc.). Others might have a location one might find attractive. The saying goes that whatever college you choose will end up feeling like the best one for you - few students regret their choice. I’m at Selwyn and it’s wonderful.</p>
<p>I don’t mean this in any sort of rude way at all, but I’d suggest learning more about Cambridge before trying to fit it into the categories you’re familiar with in the U.S.</p>
<p>“One isn’t any “better” than another in any academic sense, but one might strike your fancy in a way that another doesn’t.”</p>
<p>Precisely why I was asking about a strong math department. My son is the ultimate math nerd so he is trying to find a college where the culture suits him in terms of finding other like-minded students. He is not looking for the “best”, just a place that suits his personality. His ideal social situation would be a college where he can talk about math all day and night. </p>
<p>“I don’t mean this in any sort of rude way at all, but I’d suggest learning more about Cambridge before trying to fit it into the categories you’re familiar with in the U.S.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure what categories I was trying to fit it into. And I do agree that I need to learn more about Cambridge, that’s why I’m asking…</p>
<p>From talking with several Cambridge alums, you may want to have your kid look into Churchill College as it seems to be one of the colleges with a heavy concentration of STEM concentrators.</p>
<p>I have no personal knowledge of Cambridge, but my son is similar to yours, and we have locked into Cambridge a bit. As far as on-paper prestige goes, Trinity College looks like one to strongly consider. It has produced 31 out of 75 Cambridge Nobelists, and 5 of 6 of the British Fields medalists. Among its graduates and Fellows were James Maxwell, G.H. Hardy, and someone named Isaac Newton. As a one time philosophy major, it’s hard not to mention Betrand Russell or his protege, Ludwig Wittgenstein. </p>
<p>But I’d miss my son if he went across the pond.</p>
<p>I’m going to disagree with others in this thread. The colleges do differ quite a bit academically. The wealthiest, most prestigious colleges tend to attract the best students. Here is a chart from the Varsity–a Cambridge U student publication–which reports the 2010Tompkins table results. [Emmanuel</a> beats Trinity to top of Tompkins Table | Varsity Online](<a href=“http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/2375]Emmanuel”>Emmanuel beats Trinity to top of Tompkins Table | Varsity) The current top 10 are listed in this article <a href=“Trinity College tops Cambridge league table | The Independent | The Independent”>Trinity College tops Cambridge league table | The Independent | The Independent;
The Tompkins tables report the percentage of grads receiving “firsts.” This is the best class of degree. It’s roughly the equivalent of graduating magna or summa from HYP. </p>
<p>Places in the Tompkins table do vary year by year. However, some of the colleges are almost always near the top and others are almost always near the bottom. </p>
<p>My understanding is that if you submit an “open” application you’re virtually certain to end up in one of the colleges at the bottom of the list.</p>
<p>The wealthier colleges have better food, better wine, and better accommodation. </p>
<p>I don’t fully understand how it works, but I think the colleges hire tutors. Tutors generally want to work with better students, so they will accept positions with the better colleges if they can get one. If a tutor’s students don’t do well in the exams, the top colleges may not rehire them (or may even fire them). So, my understanding is that the quality of tutors also varies by college. </p>
<p>If you don’t have superb credentials, don’t limit your apps to the best colleges; you might not get in at all. However, you’re probably better off choosing some colleges in the middle than going “open.” I’m sure the folks in the student room can give better advice.</p>
<p>Thanks cobrat and latichever. Churchill and Trinity keep turning up in my research so I’ll have my son research further.</p>
<p>Jonri, I especially appreciate your summary of how the colleges work. I only began looking at the university this past weekend and feel overwhelmed with information. The tables are a good place to start.</p>
<p>Oxford man here. Long time ago. Colleges do have specific tutors attached to them. So while one can find a tutor outside of one’s own college, having ones you really want to work can make your life easier.</p>
<p>But remember that the bulk of education at OxBridge occurs outside of the classroom. Clubs, societies, often places where students prepare papers for each other, where students come together, socialize, and learn - often more than they do in their tutorials. Or at least that was my experience. </p>
<p>Know that colleges change, too. My Oxford college was a sleepy little place when I was there. Now, despite having almost doubled in size, it receives more applicants than any other college (though it is rarely near the top of the academic tables).</p>
<p>If he has any sense of what kind of math he would like to study, he can look up the tutors at each of the colleges and see if there is one who strikes his fancy. Since when he goes for interviews, the college’s math tutor will likely sit in on it, he’ll be way ahead of the game if he knows something about him. Finding a so-called middling college with a tutor he likes will majorly increase his admissions chances, rather than applying to those where they reject an even higher number of applicants.</p>
<p>He should practice being interviewed. Multiple times. Include in the practice panel someone who really knows something about math. Scores, grades, etc. get you into the stadium (or keep you out). They will NEVER get you onto the field.</p>
<p>My DIL interviewed in maths at Cambridge for UG. As a UK student, she had a couple of rounds of interviews/testing. Cambridge gives its own math assessment in determining who is offered a seat. She said it was a very rigorous process.</p>
<p>Every student has this same stress about colleges! As a foreign student I didn’t know ANYTHING about ANY of the colleges and spent hours trawling the uni website trying to make up my mind. Everyone thinks that other students will have made college selection based on a detailed review of tutors, accommodation and social activities. In reality, most people pick a college because
1)the photo on the website is nice
2)it is opposite the lecture hall so I can get up late
3)20 years ago my teacher knew someone at my school who went there/a relative went there
4)it was in on TV/in a movie</p>
<p>I applied to Caius, one of the old central colleges, and got “pooled” (where they think you’re good enough to get in, but you preferred college is full) to Murray Edwards, one of the modern outer colleges and a women’s. But I was perfectly happy there (and got a first). I then did a PhD at Oxford where the same pooling thing happened to me again! So I have never been at my first choice college, but then again I was choosing at random so it didn’t really matter in any way.</p>
<p>I also wouldn’t choose a college specifically due to the presence of one particular tutor because
-they might not teach undergraduates
-they might leave
-they might only teach a topic you are not fond of/do not select to study
-you might not get one with them (does happen. People do choose to change tutors sometimes).</p>
<p>Churchill college is 75% science undergrads, and very male dominated. Not sure that makes for a very social atmosphere. Trinity is HUGE compared to the other colleges. Is that what you want?</p>
<p>Choose somewhere you think you will be happy or apply open (most foreign students do). But remember that either way, once you’ve been there two weeks you won’t remember why you chose your college, nor care.</p>
<p>-Cupcake (Cambridge natural sciences graduate)</p>
<p>The problem with the Tompkins table - and the Norrington table, which is the Oxford equivalent - is that it doesn’t divide the First class degrees down by subject (AFAIK). </p>
<p>So for example, Trinity may be top of the table - but of the 37.9% of students that were awarded a First, you have absolutely no idea how many got a First in Maths. It could be a third of Maths students. It could be half. It could be none. </p>
<p>You could trawl through Cambridge’s graduation statistics if you really wanted to find out, but the Tompkins table won’t give you that information. </p>
<p>The smaller colleges will also bounce around every year anyway simply because they admit fewer undergraduates. </p>
<p>Also, just to clarify one of Jonri’s points - the colleges don’t hire tutors, exactly. The relevant University department (made of up staff from all colleges) hires them. The lectureship/fellowship is associated with a college, but the college alone doesn’t get to choose who is hired.</p>
<p>ETA: Your son should Google ‘STEP exam’ as well and become familiar with its format. STEP is Cambridge’s Maths entrance assessment.</p>
<p>Yep, Google is your friend. I think this page should be very helpful:</p>
<p>[Application</a> statistics](<a href=“Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge”>Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge)</p>
<p>See especially <a href=“Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge”>Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge;
<p>which breaks down the admissions stats for each college by subject.</p>
<p>application statistics, Tompkins table, colleges differ quite a bit academically…this thread cracks me up.</p>
<p>[Choosing</a> a College](<a href=“Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge”>Study at Cambridge | University of Cambridge)</p>
<p>[Choosing</a> a College - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am quoting here the page linked by Orangelogic as I know most people will not read it. Straight from the horses mouth.</p>
<p>It is best to spend more time of preparing for the interview than stressing over college choice. I wish I’d know that.
</p>
<p>** THE DEADLINE FOR APPLICATIONS FOR ADMISSION OCTOBER 2013 IS 15 OCTOBER 2012**</p>
<p>So if the OP’s son is a senior, he will have to hurry up.</p>
<p>In a nutshell the most important things to consider when choosing an Oxbridge college</p>
<p>-you want to be in an ancient or a new college? Glorious architecture vs crappy modern. Have to add, several ancient colleges have incredibly ugly new buildings on the main site of the college (as the topic is about Cambridge, it’s perhaps enough to mention Queens’ and Christ’s colleges were the new buildings are very visible.)</p>
<ul>
<li>there are still 3 women only colleges at Cambridge. Highly unpopular they are, yet some might like the idea of being surrounded by…pooled girls (and lesbians, feminist, and a few Muslims girls - yeah, I love stereotypes)</li>
</ul>
<p>-you want to be in a big, or a small college? it’s not necessarily about the physical size of the college but the number of students. Small, cozy, “everyone knows everyone” vs “massive” student population</p>
<p>-distance from your department/faculty. The supervisions are based in the colleges but you will have lectures too. It’s nice not to cycle 15 minutes to your faculty every second morning…</p>
<p>-College wealth. As the Oxbridge colleges are independent charitable institutions, not simply glorified halls of residence, they have their own endowments. Some are rich, some are not. This will not have an affect on your studies, but wealthy colleges can give more grants, etc. Perhaps you will end up in the richest college without receiving a single penny directly from the college, nevertheless college wealth can’t hurt.</p>
<p>Other than this, just google the colleges. </p>
<p>[Colleges</a> of the University of Cambridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleges_of_the_University_of_Cambridge]Colleges”>Colleges of the University of Cambridge - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Google images helps a lot :D</p>
<p>BTW, Trinity has perhaps the most mathmos.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input everyone; I really appreciate you taking the time to chime in. </p>
<p>GeraldM, thanks for the basic breakdown. I had not considered college wealth as a factor, but it makes a lot of sense as research is something that he will definitely pursue.</p>
<p>Apparently the application is done and he is mulling over the college choice. He is certainly not stressing about it but he believes that the college with the highest concentration of extreme math nerds is the place for him. We’ll see how it goes…</p>
<p>Jesus College graduate here. Nice smallish college. Beautiful grounds but kinda off the beaten path. Don’t know what the concentration of math students would be these days, but when I was there (way back when) we had quite a few maths.</p>
<p>My husband did maths at Jesus back in the 70’s. At that time it was known to be good for maths…but as megpmom said, that may have changed now. We live in California, but have visited there a number of times and it’s certainly beautiful!! Our son, now a UCLA grad and a duel citizen, considered applying there…but we all decided that because the system is so very very different from the U.S. that he really would be happier staying here. And he doesn’t regret his decision.</p>