<p>My son has felt for some time that he would like to major in Atmospheric/Earth Science or a related field-Hydrology? Oceanography? Geology?</p>
<p>He is a rising Jr. so he is starting to put together a college list. So far, Cornell. He is fixated on Cornell alone. He says he will apply to SUNY Albany, and perhaps Penn State as safeties. I think he should expand his list a TAD!</p>
<p>The Earth Science major is absent from a lot of schools, or the scope of the major seems limited so I am looking for advice in putting together a list. As far as his stats, Cornell is viable, but of course never guaranteed.</p>
<p>So can anyone suggest schools with respected and expansive Earth Science departments where he would be able to explore a variety of subfields? A variety of field experiences is a must and as well as a good grad school admissions outlook. He would prefer to focus on schools close to home which is near Hamilton College in Upstate NY. I would also like him to expand that view, but that is going to be another thread!</p>
<p>Thanks so much in advance-I am learning so much here!</p>
<p>You are asking about expanding his view, so here goes: For good grad school acceptance rates, think about a good LAC with good science departments. Rather than âexpansive Earth science departmentsâ you might find one that does an excellent job of preparing your son for graduate school. My wifeâs sister went to Haverford for physics, went on to get her PhD in atmospheric physics and has had a good career. My daughter will likely major in Geology at Earlham college. Often graduate schools are looking for students who know their way around the literature and research design etc - and good liberal arts often provides that, so you may find it as easy or easier to go from LAC to a good grad school. One way to look at it, an LAC prepares you well for grad school, while a large department at a research institution may prepare you better to enter the job market directly.</p>
<p>For geology LACs consider schools affiliated with this consortium [Keck</a> Research Opportunities for Undergraduates | Keck Geology Consortium](<a href=âhttp://keckgeology.org/]Keckâ>http://keckgeology.org/) which offers some great research opportunities.</p>
<p>There arenât many colleges that offer âEarth Scienceâ majors; instead they offer separate programs in Geology, Geophysics, Physical Oceanography and Meteorology. Many courses are common to all these majors (Calculus + Diff EQ + Linear Alg, General Chem, Calc-based Physics), but at some point in your late Sophomore/early Junior year, they start to diverge. I note this because your son can start out at a school that offers these majors and not make an irreversible decision for at least a year.</p>
<p>I also think that many colleges (Cornell included) offer excellent Geology programs, and any one will offer a similar set of coursework. It is more important to select the most appropriate grad program. For example, I would recommend U of AZ for hydrology.</p>
<p>Al F.
B.A., Geology, UVM
M.S. Geology, UM (Mpls)</p>
<p>To add on to Alfâs excellent post, itâs important to remember that most geology classes tend small because few students are interested in the field (petroleum engineering seems to be a more popular course of study). In fact at my school, the University of Oklahoma, almost every geology class has less than 30 people and field work is a vital component of all classes. One thing to look for when choosing a program is to see how many students are majoring in earth science fields. I consider 20-30 the minimum. </p>
<p>If you can afford Penn State, he should apply there. Not only is its geology incredibly strong, but it also houses one of the top meteorology schools in the nation. For a student with those interests, Penn State might be worth the OOS tuition.</p>
<p>There were some schools that have a strong geology program that werenât listed on Alfâs link. One which I consider particularly notable is the University of Rochester. </p>
<p>My own school, the University of Oklahoma, is home to an outstanding earth science department and the second best meteorology school in the US. There are three clubs pertaining to geology, the department regularly offers small, 1 credit seminar classes, research is easily available, and itâd likely cost you about as much as a SUNY (unless he gets merit from Albany). Additionally, the atmospheric science department is housed in the national weather center and the earth science department has its own building with a dedicated library. Iâve seen the faculty bios of graduates students in top atmospheric science departments and many obtained their BS from OU.</p>
<p>whenhenâcan you elaborate on why you say you consider 20-30 a minimum? And do you mean total pursuing the major, or per year? Lack of course offerings, lack of profs, resources?<br>
I am familiar with the program U of OK but there is NO way I will be able to sell OK.
Penn State he really considers too big, and despite the program being nationally acclaimed, the school itself is not as reachy as he has in mind. As for the cost, it would be the same as Cornell, which would be full pay and more than I can wrap my head around, thus my underlying motive for finding other schools.</p>
<p>Iâd consider that total rather than per year although having more certainly couldnât hurt. When thereâs 20-30 students in a program it allows for greater course variety as well as more âintellectual peersâ where your son can share his love of the subject, or at least find a cohesive study group. When there are more than 20 students, it seems as though thereâs usually a club devoted to the interest as well as more students to draw on for career advice, internship opportunities, etc. A program with less than 20 majors (with the possible exclusion of Cal Tech) likely wouldnât have the amount of resources necessary for a degree in geology. </p>
<p>And understood about the Oklahoma thing. If your son has Cornell like stats, he could likely get some merit aid at PSU which might lower the cost. Some of the less competitive Keck schools including Trinity and Wooster would also offer him money assuming he stands a chance at your alma mater. You may also wish to consider St. Lawrence University and University of Puget Sound. Those seem to have solid geology programs (although Iâm a bit concerned about UPSâ) and a heavy outdoors focus. Another LAC excellent in atmospheric science is Valpraiso although itâs in the middle of Indiana. </p>
<p>Iâll talk to some of my coworkers today and see what they think are solid, medium sized programs in Earth sciences.</p>
<p>He should also look at SUNY, Stony Brook. It is very strong in geology/geophysics, and has excellent chemistry, physics, math and CS programs which are all fundamental for Earth Science. For in-state the price is right.</p>
<p>If he has the stats for Cornell, he should check out Columbia too. With Lamont, the Earth Institute and the Dept. of Earth and Environmental Science, it has resources and opportunities that other schools just donÂt have. It is terribly expensive, but offers generous need-based financial aid if you qualify. Also, the department subsidizes/pays for field trips, internships, AGU meetings, research cruises for qualified undergraduates.</p>
<p>For safer options, also consider Syracuse and U Miami (poor geology, phenomenal oceanography and atmospheric sciences). Syracuseâs magma lab was recently highlighted in a magazine devoted to geology/geophysics.</p>
<p>I agree with LetsGoMets. Columbia offers one of the strongest geology programs in the world. For some reason, the best geology programs seem to be in urban schools (ex: Harvard, MIT, Chicago, etc).</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone.
Another follow up question-I see that Columbia has only BA programs (Princeton as well) and my son thinks that is an issue. Any opinions?</p>
<p>There are a lot of colleges out west that offer great Geology programs.</p>
<p>DS had a narrower Geology focus when he was applying to colleges- he was interested in Geophysics / Seismology.
He applied to many colleges , and eventually enrolled at USC , in part because they had the Southern California Earthquake Center- run by the former Dean of Geology at MIT. which offered many [paid] summer research programs and research opportunities in all of their Geology/ Earth Science programs.
[Home</a> > Department of Earth Sciences > USC Dana and David Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences](<a href=âhttp://dornsife.usc.edu/earth]Homeâ>http://dornsife.usc.edu/earth)</p>
<p>DS is now at CalTech getting his PhD. in Geophysics. </p>
<p>Having a BA vrs BS degree is not important. At all.
The classes that are taken, the research that is done by the student while in college, the letters of recommendation from professors and the students major/ overall GPA, and to a degree- the college the student graduated from- is what is important to grad school programs.
That said- all of my sonâs fellow Phd classmates in Seismology when he started at Caltech all graduated from Universities.
Cornell, Michigan, Texas and USC</p>
<p>Iâve seen the graduate student bios at many top research universities and most students who majored in geology/geophysics (a sizable number majored in CS and/or physics) came from top 50 departments. However, two LACs known for their strengths in earth science, Carleton and Bowdoin, were also listed. Incidentally, one professor at my university sent his kid to Carleton (he told me this after I mentioned that I transferred from a LAC)</p>
<p>For a major such as geology, I wouldnât be terribly concerned about the size of the school because students in the major tend to be a tight nit bunch. They do field camp together, take the same small classes, etc. If your son does want a smaller community, his best bets are to look at the medium sized schools including Syracuse, CSM or some LACs like NMIT, Colorado College, Whitman, etc.</p>
<p>I know there is a slim chance that this will be read by the right person, but here goesâŠ</p>
<p>Someone was kind enough to send me a PM about their daughter who had attended Carleton and when I went to respond the message had vanished???</p>
<p>Since you took the time to message me I feel terrible that I did not respond and I hope that you read this. Thanks to you, and thank you to everyone else that offered advice.</p>