<p>My dd took the year long AP Calc BC course at her high school last year and scored a 5 on the AP exam. She is now in a 3rd semester college calc course which she was under the impression would be the next in sequence after that AP course. Unfortunately, there appears to be some material (such as vectors) that the professor assumed everyone had had in their previous calc course, but which a large number of students had not. The transition from a high school course to a college course along with starting out behind has made the school year quite difficult so far. I was wondering how common this situation is among other high schools and colleges where a college course that should be next in line after a given high school AP Course assumes that the AP Course covered more material than it actually did? Is this a problem with the AP course, the high school's implementation of the AP Course, or a localized mis-match with a given college?</p>
<p>This is just one reason many top tier colleges want students to take the full Calculus and science series, even if they've done well with AP. It was an issue with D's university, but D felt it was better to "fill in the missing background" than be bored retaking introductory courses. YMMV.</p>
<p>The calculus BC class at our local high school didn't even prep the kids to take the BC test (teacher told all kids who were taking the BC test to self study 2 chapters in the 2 weeks preceding the test). Needless to say, Calc BC is no longer offered at our high school!</p>
<p>My D jumped into the 2nd semester college calc course and that was just right. The college calculus courses are quite rigorous and they speed through the material at lightning speed.</p>
<p>Good question. D tells me lots of bright Calc BC kids did well in HS but they have indeed struggled with the transitioning to the next level in college. She says Some have even struggled with the beginning sequence of college level Calc. I'm not a math guy so I don't know the specific areas that are problematic, but I think a lot of it is just the change of intensity from HS to college level math.</p>
<p>My son took BC Calculus and struggled with parts of it. He re-took Calculus from the get-go in college, aced the first two quarters (although from the outset he felt he was learning at least some new material all the time), and hit a wall in the third, when he had to work like a dog not to fall behind. It would have been a disaster for him if he had started with the third quarter.</p>
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which she was under the impression would be the next in sequence after that AP course
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<p>Did the HS advise kids on which calculus to take in college? Is she at a school that several from her HS attend? Seems to me that the HS has a role in advising kids.</p>
<p>Ditto NewHope's D...
S1 also earned a 5 on the Calc BC exam and was given credit for the first of three Calc classes in his engineering sequence. When he started Calc II (?) as a first semester freshman, he took an "entrance" exam so the prof could assess readiness of the class members (both incoming AP students and those who had taken the actual college class). There was material on the test that he was expected to know which had not been covered in the AP class. He corresponded with his HS calc teacher, met with the prof and did a little self-studying to catch up. For him, it was also better than retaking the entire calc I class. He ended up with a B+ in both remaining calculus classes freshman year.</p>
<p>Vectors and vector-valued functions are listed in the BC syllabus, so it's hard to fault the college professor for assuming that students have learned about vectors.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, I've heard that a lot of schools find students who have completed BC Calculus aren't ready for a third semester of calculus. Some schools have their own placement tests.</p>
<p>Lots of schools have math tutoring centers. I hope the OP's daughter has checked that out.</p>
<p>The relative preparedness for the college course must depend on what/how the high school instructor teaches.</p>
<p>My D took AP Calc BC, got a "A" in the course and a 5 on the test. She was awarded credit for the first two calc courses at college and placed in the 3rd calc course (multivariable calculus). </p>
<p>She's had no trouble so far. In fact, she said the professor spent the first class making sure everyone knew the vector stuff, and she was the only one out of the five freshman in the college course who had covered vectors in the HS course. She sent an e-mail to the hs calculus and physics teachers, thanking them for preparing her so well!</p>
<p>Our high school as far as I know covers all the BC topics - I know my son had worked with vectors in both physics and math. Carnegie Mellon gives credit for two semesters if you get a 5, one semester if you get a 4 and none for lower scores. However they also give a placement test reasoning that if you don't remember the material for their placement test you probably should be repeating it.</p>
<p>mrsref reminded me...S1 also took AP Physics and credited the combination of AP Calc and AP Physics (and really terrific teachers) with his preparedness for college level math.</p>
<p>It so depends on the college course if your student has truly mastered the AP course material.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the responses! Here are answers and/or more info I thought of after reading the responses.</p>
<p>My D took the AP Calc BC class as a HS junior so she is taking the 3rd semester college calc course (multivariable calculus) at a local university as a HS senior. My Ds HS math teacher did advise her on which course to take next and there are usually 1 or more students from her HS doing it every year. This year there are at least 4 kids from her HS in the same section and quite a few more from other HSs in the area as well as some college students. We know there are students from her HS and from some of the others that have similar problems (missing background). We also know of at least one HS where the kids apparently did cover the material. In my Ds HS, Calc AB and Calc BC are each offered as 1 year courses and it is stated that the BC class includes all topics covered in Calculus AB plus additional topics. Students normally take one or the other, but not both. In that other HS it sounds like the students take the equivalent of 1st semester college calc one year and then the equivalent of the 2nd semester college calc the next year. I do not know when or which of the AP Calc exams they then take, but they definitely have more time to spend on the subject.</p>
<p>My D has talked to the prof, the TA, and visited the universitys math lab with some classmates. The math lab is used as a study group setting with traveling TAs for tutoring type help. All of these things definitely helped.</p>
<p>Im not a math person and I cant remember all of the topics my D said were not covered in her AP class that the prof thought they should already know. As for the vectors, I think she said they covered vectors in 2 dimensions, but not in 3 dimensions. When a student told the prof that they had not covered that in their prior course, he did a quick, but inadequate review. In my Ds later meeting with the prof, he finally seemed to realize that he had a class with a large number of students who werent quite at the point he thought they all were. I think my D could have used the same prof mentioned by mrsref. Interestingly, I was looking at an MIT 3rd semester Calc course through their opencourseware site and the prof there had a large number of students who hadnt covered vectors.</p>
<p>My D took the AP Physics B class at her HS, but I dont remember her mentioning anything about her Calc course being useful in it. Algebra 2 is listed as a pre-requisite. Based on some of the other posts, it sounds like Pre-Calc should be the pre-requisite and maybe concurrent enrollment in a Calc course. My D did get an A in the AP Physics class and I think a 4 on that AP exam.</p>
<p>webcast.berkeley.edu has this semester has Prof. Hutchings teaching that course, Math 53, might want to take a look there, he goes over vectors and he's pretty good, the video is pretty good quality. You can download as podcast too from itunes U.</p>
<p>spenier -- I'll fill in the background on my D's AP Calc experiences.</p>
<p>Our hs is on block scheduling, so students only have four courses at a time. Courses are offered for 9, 18, or 27 weeks.</p>
<p>AP Calc AB is a 27-week course (basically 3/4 of the school year) and is a prereq for AP Calc BC. Students are encouraged to take the AB test after the AB course. Those that follow up with AP Calc BC the following school year (27 weeks) then usually take the BC test. D got a 5 on both tests (So we paid for two AP tests, but got the benefit of 8 college credits.)</p>
<p>It probably helped my D that she had the equivalent of 1.5 school years to absorb the material, and with the block scheduling she really had time to "steep" in it!</p>
<p>AP Physics B doesn't need calculus, but Physics C does. In our high school honors level sophomores take AP Physics B as a first physics course concurrently with Algebra 2. The kids who take Physics C take it concurrently with calculus or sometimes after calculus. </p>
<p>In our school you take either AP Calc AB or BC, not both, they are both one year courses. I gather BC is only a few chapters more than AB. They usually do the first few chapters of the calculus text in Pre-Calc. So though there is no block scheduling, they do get a little over a year on the course. (Of course since our school starts after Labor Day we are at a disadvantage the year they take the AP.)</p>
<p>D is a freshman at a NESCAC school. Took HS AP Calc BC. During orientation she was recommended for the most advanced calc class based on AP test score and GPA. However, her HS class did not cover Vectors. After speaking with the Math Department at her school she understood that the advanced calc class met 3x/week and expected you to know vectors or the 2nd level class met 4x/week and taught the vector section to get caught up. She chose the second level and is glad she did. Still a great deal of work but not overwhelming for a 1st semester frosh.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. At our high school, the kids take Calc AB junior year and Calc BC senior year, or just AB senior year. The kids who do both years seem to do well in college according to my sons. Both my sons started in Calc. 3 at 2 different colleges and did well (B and B+). Both felt that they were well prepared and neither felt they had missed anything. Maybe the 2 year sequense allows for a more indepth preparation and understanding.</p>
<p>A few years ago had a discussion with another mother who reported on a gifted kid's take on the difficulty of various calculus courses taken as AP, at local podunk (public/private) U's, regular (ie not Honors) at elite public U and at elite private U- there is an ascending level of course difficulty/material covered. I have heard of kids at the flagship U (via CC) being told they may want to repeat first semester calc instead of doing the second semester. There are even three different first semester calculus courses offered - for a 2 semester "terminal" sequence not accepted by some majors, the regular 3 semester sequence and a 4 semester Honors, theory based sequence, which also covers other courses (eg linear algebra by the end of the 3rd semester, also ineligible for credit for some other math courses, I believe). Not all courses or colleges are created equally.</p>
<p>In deed, DS' experience has been that not all college courses are created equally. He self studied calculus bc in high school and scored 5 on the AP test. He then took multivariable calc, linear algebra and differential equations at UC Berkeley as a high school senior. He received A's in all the classes and comments from professors that he should simply skip undergrad math and move on to graduate level courses. As a freshmen in college(one of the top CC schools), his college required placement tests. He placed into multivariable calc which is the 1st math course at his school and repeated the entire sequence he'd taken at UCB. At his school the courses are very different requiring proofs and he's found the work pushes him in a way neither of us expected after finding the UCB courses easy.</p>