<p>I took AP Calculus BC in 9th grade and received an A+ both semesters. Do any of you know students who took AP Calculus AB or BC in 9th grade or earlier and received a grade of A- to A+? If so, if they applied to any of HYPSM, what were their results? I am just wondering if it is a significant boost to be this advanced in math, assuming all else equal; I believe that something like 50 current seniors (I am also a senior) took the AP Calculus BC test in 9th grade, so probably about 125 current seniors took some form of AP Calculus in 9th grade or earlier. I have tried searching for cases like this but have not gotten many results.</p>
<p>What did you get on the AP test?</p>
<p>I got a 5 (with 5 on AB subscore as well).</p>
<p>how are the rest of your grades Bob? And EC’s? And what did you do for the next 3 years in math? It is not as easy as “I took AP calc in 9th grade”. That is not enough of a hook to be automatic. But good job, none the less!</p>
<p>Being a math whiz is not enough for admittance. Did you focus in math and science throughout high school, or does 9th grade calculus stick out like a sore thumb? If you are going to major in math or science this stands out, but you have to back it up with stuff like research, olympiads, quiz bowls, etc.</p>
<p>I met a lot of people who’ve done that (including a few who did it in middle school). In general, they go to very good schools, but that’s because they tend to do other, far more impressive things: original math research, advanced undergrad or graduate level math courses, or competitions like the USAMO. The AP is usually an afterthought.</p>
<p>Rather than re list my stats, refer to my chance thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1211081-chances-caltech.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1211081-chances-caltech.html</a></p>
<p>As my course load indicates, I have focused on math and science despite succeeding in other areas too. I have taken other advanced math courses (OHS Linear Algebra and EPGY Differential Equations, as well as AP Statistics self study). I did attempt to make USAMO but always missed the cutoff (I was fairly close to USAJMO in 10th grade.) However, I have qualified for the AIME all three years. I have not done original math or science research (for science fairs, etc.) The only olympiad I actually advanced in besides AMC to AIME was the Chemistry Olympiad, which I semifinaled in. My school does not possess a quiz bowl team. I have been involved in Math and Science club.</p>
<p>I applied for RSI last year but was rejected, probably due to my essays (I don’t think I spent enough time on them.) This will not happen again with my college essays. I have spent lots of time on my college applications already and am close to done with the essays.</p>
<p>Bump…</p>
<p>Bumping again.</p>
<p>It really wouldn’t help at all - as others have said, the only reason early calculus would help you could be to allow you to produce original research in math or some other heavily quantitative field. Personally, looking at your chance thread I say probable reject - you don’t seem to have advanced in math nearly as far as you could have, given your early lead. Anyone that takes calculus their freshman year should be taking at least real analysis by senior year.</p>
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<p>I’m curious about this. Do you mean to say that finishing AP calculus, multivariable calculus (both differential and integral), AP statistics, linear algebra, and differential equations in 4 years is too slow? I know others who have taken BC in 9th grade and only 1 has advanced as far as I have.</p>
<p>Note: I have also studied other topics in math on my own, but that isn’t really something you can say on an application, is it? (Because they’d have no way of knowing it’s true.)</p>
<p>Well those are some pretty ridiculous test scores, they will probably show admissions that you are motivated at the very least. Caltech is extremely selective so I’d consider it a low reach after looking at your chances post. While I think it’s impressive to take such an advanced math as a freshman, I don’t think it’s enough to be even a small hook. I think you have better than average chances but it’s a toss up, I don’t really know what Caltech admissions looks for.</p>
<p>I think snipersas is saying that even though you took BC as a freshman, maybe statistics was a poor choice of class over a more difficult class and if you are a math whiz it may have been a better decision to focus on it more.</p>
<p>Well good luck, I hope you get into a college that you like! If you could, please chance me 
[Chances</a> for Stanford / Wharton / few others - College Confidential](<a href=“http://■■■■■■/6OHy9]Chances”>http://■■■■■■/6OHy9)</p>
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<p>I self-studied statistics instead of taking the class, in order to take Computer Science (they were in the same class period). I also took H. Multivariable Calculus that year.</p>
<p>@snipersas: Also, real analysis is the next course up, and I believe I could take it right now, but my parents aren’t willing to pay the fee (it’s around $750) so they told me to study it myself, which obviously won’t help for college applications. Nevertheless, I have been using MIT OCW and other materials to “take” real analysis.</p>
<p>This thread was to mainly get empirical evidence. The only person I know who took calculus in 9th grade or before (he took BC in 9th like I did) and has already applied to college got into Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. He was valedictorian and also had perfect SAT scores, but had EC’s probably about as weak as mine [and essays, recs, etc. probably about the same; same demographic- middle to upper class Indian male]. However, I also know that each year, college admissions get tougher and tougher.</p>
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<p>Yes, essentially. By the time you have finished AP calculus BC, you are on the college math track, at which point each one of those classes is one semester long - it’s normal to take multivariate calc and linear algebra in the same year, with one semester for each. Add another semester for differential equations, and that still leaves another three semesters for math classes, which are generally filled with analysis, algebra, or geometry classes. Taking double time for these suggests that you are not working up to your potential, which is very bad for admissions.</p>
<p>You also ask for empirical evidence, but the sample you are looking at is both too small and too noisy to draw any meaningful conclusions from. As others have mentioned, most people that show unusual talent in a particular field use that talent in some notable way, most often by entering in research competitions or Olympiads and succeeding at them. While they often take unusually advanced classes in their topic, it’s not the advanced classes that get them in - it is the ECs that the talent enables. </p>
<p>To take a simple example, I remember reading that a few years back 1/3 of the 200 Intel STS finalists had perfect scores on the SAT. At the time, there were around 250 perfect scorers, meaning that about 25% of those with perfect scores on the SAT were also finalists in the science talent search. At the time, Princeton reported an acceptance rate of 50% for perfect scorers on the SAT, but that number is misleading - generally people that make STS finalist are admitted nearly everywhere they apply, independently of their other stats - they don’t NEED high SAT scores to be admitted. Those students that were perfect scorers/STS finalists served as “noise” in the admit rate data, suggesting that an otherwise unremarkable 2400’ers chances were higher then they actually were.</p>
<p>STS finalists alone accounted for 25% of the perfect scoring population, and I imagine that if you include people that made camp in the various olympaids that number of EC admits that just happened to have 2400s would increase substantially. Your 9th grade AP calculus issue is similar - the number of “gravy” 9th grade calc people is tiny, and taking the entire data set would present misleading conclusions.</p>
<p>Oh, and your parents make 1m+ per year, but won’t cover a $750 fee?</p>
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<p>My parents are extremely frugal despite being rich and weren’t convinced that I needed to take the course through EPGY instead of learning the material on my own, which they know I am capable of. Believe it or not. Still, $750 isn’t trivial, and my parents make barely over a million (when taxes are included, it’s much less).</p>
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<p>I understand all your points and agree with almost all, except for this one. I don’t think any college would prefer a kid who took [Honors/AP for all] Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalc, Calc BC, over me, if all else was equal.</p>
<p>Also, in college single variable calculus is a semester class, as is Multivariable, but I believe that at more than 95% of high schools either form of AP Calc is a year long class. Also, at my high school, Multivariable is a year long class (even on EPGY, this is so, because it’s split into 2 parts). As for Linear Algebra and Differential equations, I am already taking a full schedule at school. Most EPGY or OHS-ers I know did not take 2 sequential EPGY classes during one school year. But maybe you are different. Did you?</p>
<p>As for using my math talent, I have tried to make USAMO but have failed (was close in 10th, though). I attempted a science fair project in math but it was an utter failure, so my others were in different areas. It’s not as though I didn’t try to use my talent, it’s just that I work best in a structured environment and competitions or research are the exact opposite. College is a structured form of learning, though, and even most research will be guided by professors, right? I believe I can succeed in upper div math courses [I want to major in math] even if my skills in geometry (the main reason I never made USAMO) or research are relatively lacking. I’ve known people who have successfully majored in math with far weaker math backgrounds than mine (no AIME, no math club / other demonstrated strong interest in math in HS, sometimes no Calc BC in HS).</p>
<p>As for math self study, do you think I COULD include it in my applications? The way you make it seem is as though I’m lazy, but in fact my parents just aren’t willing to pay for what they see as a nominal difference. I self studied number theory last year and am doing so for real analysis now, so do you think that would make me seem less “not meeting my potential”? I just don’t know how they look at people who claim to self study a subject without any way to prove it.</p>
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<p>I agree that your schedule is preferable, I’m simply stating that it does not provide a significant advantage for admissions purposes, when a significant advantage is exactly what you (or anyone for that matter) needs.</p>
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<p>AP calculus BC is equivalent to (college) calculus I and II, which totals a full year. The only school I know of that combines the two into one semester is MIT.</p>
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<p>The only online class I have taken was EPGY’s AP calculus BC, which I covered in just over a month of work. Since then, I have taken all my math classes at a local university (along with several other high school students), where it is standard to take two math classes per year alongside a regular course load. Those have included MVC, differential equations, and linear algebra - but I’m not a math person.</p>
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<p>In my experience, no. My research has been in economics and analytical chemistry, and it has been far more independent then any classwork ever was - the whole idea of research is that there’s no key to check your work against.</p>