<p>My high school sophmore son received an A in a CC Biology course that counts for CC and Univ of CA credit as well as a full year of Bio in high school. He could end up taking 3 semesters of calculus, 3 semesters of Chem and 3 semesters of Bio before graduating–possibly saving an entire year of college.</p>
<li><p>Will this help his Ivy League application over someone who took AP courses?</p></li>
<li><p>Will this help if he decides to go to UCLA or other UC school over someone who took AP courses?</p></li>
<li><p>For Med School, if he takes the AP classes, will he have to take Chem, Bio, Calculus over again in college?</p></li>
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<ol>
<li><p>Will this help his Ivy League application over someone who took AP courses?
Define help. Will it look like he took an advance curriculum - yes. Will he get college credit. Likely not.</p></li>
<li><p>Will this help if he decides to go to UCLA or other UC school over someone who took AP courses?
I'm not from CA, but my understanding is that the UC system does grant credit for CC courses.</p></li>
<li><p>For Med School, if he takes the AP classes, will he have to take Chem, Bio, Calculus over again in college?
Probably not if the college gives him credit.</p></li>
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<ol>
<li> No, it won't. Top colleges that are not part of the UC system prefer to have AP courses, especially with AP scores. The reason is that the AP curriculum is known whereas cc classes vary enormously in quality and coverage. If he can, ask him to take the AP-Bio exam.
At HYP, the way to receive Advanced Standing is through AP or IB credits, not through cc credits.</li>
<li>Not a CA resident, so I don't know the answer.</li>
<li>I don't know the answer to this question.</li>
</ol>
<p>I am a CA resident. There is a list of "UC" designated courses which qualify for UC credit....Check the particular CC you are dealing with and if the course is on the list, you automatically transfer in those credits, presuming that you had a C or better in the course. If you are doing the UC thing, it may or may not help in terms of admissions..It does help in terms of saving you money down the road. Please be aware of the recent news articles about the UC campuses being extremely impacted. There has been a lot of media coverage recently about waiting lists for waiting lists for classes that are full. Before the hoardes post to disagree with me, I am NOT saying this is the case at every UC, for every student. Just that there has been an impact. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY. Do your own homework.</p>
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2. Yes, I believe college courses will help your UC GPA because it doesn't fall under the 8 AP/Honors courses cap, if you do well.
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</p>
<p>Community College courses taken as dual credit can't help nor hurt your college GPA, unless you end up going to that community college. Just like any other credit transfered from one college to another, your GPA in those courses won't count but you will get credit for the class(es).</p>
<p>There is no question that top college prefer AP courses since they understand the curriculum. However, a good argument can be made for taking CC courses.</p>
<p>Many colleges won't give college credit for AP courses taken unless you score at least a 3 on the AP exam. In fact, many colleges now require a 4 and even a 5 for credit. If you have a kid that does well on AP exams, this may not be a problem. However, if your kid, of if you are the kid reading this, doesn't do well on AP test, you are much better off taking CC courses.</p>
<p>In addition, to get college credit for CC courses, all you need is a "C" average.</p>
<p>I should note that some colleges have a rule about not giving college credit for CC courses that replace required high school courses. Thus, if you are required to take 4 years of high school English but only take three years in high school and one year at a community college, you probably won't get credit for the English. You want to stick with generic courses that should transfer such as psychology, sociology,history, economics, some math and science.</p>
<p>AP vs CC, which "looks" better? A logical question on this forum. We're all looking for admissions advantage, credit, and so on. But is it unreasonable to also consider which might be the better educational experience? Not that I know, you realize, but I'd LIKE to know. D took a raft of APs and only one academic CC course. It's the CC course that meant the most to her: her classmates were mature and engaged; the prof was an incredibly talented PhD; and earning an A took more effort but she loved working at that higher level. Granted, this was a handpicked class, one of the best, but certainly no teacher at her high could approach this level of scholarship. I'm astounded that people think all AP classes outrank, or are "harder" than" all CC classes. HS teachers have to follow the AP script, but a science professor active in his field can bring so much more to the table. I'm troubled that we're only asking how courses "look" on a transcript rather than also considering what they mean to the student's education.</p>
<p>We only answered the question that was asked. It is impossible to compare a generic cc class with a generic AP class. Our cc happens to be the Harvard Extension School, which I am sure, differs mightilty from say, Roxbury community college. Some years ago, the AP-Biology teacher, who happened to hold a Ph.D., was so bad that many of the students at the high school preferred to take the Intro Bio class at HES. When the AP-Bio teacher was replaced with someone who did not have a Ph.D but was supposedly a much better teacher, the students went back to taking AP-Bio, except for my S who had a scheduling conflict.</p>
<p>The texts were the same. A key difference was the pace of the course. The HES semester was much shorter than the high school semester, and the class did not meet every day, double period as in Ap-Bio. There was much less homework as well and much less handholding. </p>
<p>My S got credit toward Advanced Standing for all the AP classes he took and none for those he took at HES--even though he ended up at H. In the case of Intro Bio, he got credit because he took the AP exam. But he did not get credit for MV Calc and the other math and physics classes he took through HES. This shows that H will not grant credit for even its own courses, let alone courses at some unknown cc. Fine by us, since S had no intention of using AS. But it may matter a lot to people who want to save $45k.</p>
<p>If you have a good high school, CC courses should not be a plus, necessarily. My son had a chance this year to take two courses at a nearby four-year college, but after thinking about it and looking into the courses he decided that he would rather take the courses at his high school -- the teachers were just as good, maybe better, and the kids in the class will be at Ivies or Penn State honors college next year -- several steps up from the college where he would have taken classes (although, yes, the students would be somewhat more mature). Plus the extra class time, and the ability to see classmates and teachers out of class. I thought he made the right decision; I hope colleges see it that way, too.</p>
<p>To some extent, the whole AP mania has me tearing my hair out. I don't know about the sciences, but in history, English, languages, etc., I find the AP curriculum mediocre at best. A decent school with decent teachers could do a lot better; IB, at least in theory, also does a lot better (at much higher cost). I understand the economic importance of AP for kids who want to get through college with less tuition, and its value in providing some sort of national standardized curriculum, and its value in terms of letting kids signal that they are academically ambitious. But it's still a crappy solution, and I don't think the selective college world does its future students any favors by giving AP the boost it apparently does.</p>
<p>I'll just throw one more thought into the mix which expands on celloguy's comment...my son took some dual enrollment CC classes and while in his case some were easier than APs, not all btw, what I felt was positive about the experience was that he interacted with students who were working adults. The concept that not everyone gets the luxury of going to a four year college really hit home for him. Here were adults who had to work all day, go to class at night, and then find time to do the school work. Some were also balancing a family in that mix. The interaction with the other students was a great thing on many levels.<br>
Disclaimer: he did not go to and was not applying to any top tier schools. We had the "luxury" of making choices that may not be as practical if your kid has their sights set on an ivy.</p>
<p>Here is a great post from the dual enrollment board in this forum. These are a student's words...I'm sory I haven't figured out how to make this come up in that grey box...</p>
<p>As for what colleges think
I really have no idea. I've heard so many different opinions on this board ranging all the way from "You have a crazy rigourous courseload" to "Community college classes are horrible." Right now, the only thing I know for sure is that this was the right choice for me. These courses I've taken have been so much more rigourous and engaging than any AP class I ever took at my high school. I did not enjoy my AP courses one bit. I hated the teaching to the test, the constant "Oh, that's not important because its not on the AP test." We spent a whole year taking practice exams and watching movies! No lectures, no tests, no real learning for the sake of learning. I suppose those AP classes might have left a sour taste in my mouth, but I still am extremely satisfied with my decision.</p>
<p>I think the main selling point of AP is that schools, students and parents can find out exactly what's supposed to be covered by looking it up on College Board. I think it can affirm high grades earned by a student from a high school unknown to admissions people. It is a standard that's clearly written out. Why not have your child take the AP exams as a way of covering his bases? There are high schools that don't like to be tied to the AP curriculum so don't offer AP courses, yet students study on their own, take the exams and do well.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you about the quality of AP courses in the humanities and social sciences. One inch deep and a mile wide is how they are usually characterized. I was flabbergasted when finding out with S1 that the opportunities to write long research papers ended with he began taking AP-History and AP-English classes. When he thought back on the two teachers that had helped him the most with his writing and understanding of history, he mentioned his 9th and 10th grade teachers.</p>
<p>My daughter took a number of college courses while in high school. She also took a lot of APs.</p>
<p>Whether one is better than the other probably depends on all circumstances.</p>
<p>I will say this though:
1) IMO, colleges Do care about high school GPAs. And high school recommendations. The college work my daughter did was completely invisible to her high school. Although the colleges she applied to did see her college transcripts, I doubt they factored this in to her high school GPA for evaluation purposes. And the school's guidance counselor did not get any feedback from her college insructors when he formulated the high school's recommendation letters, or whatever they do.</p>
<p>2) She is currently somewhat insecure about the material she learned in these course- both the APs and the CC courses. They likely were not taught at the level of a comparable course at a top college. In one case she is hesitant to take an upper-level course due to lack of confidence in her level of preparation.</p>
<p>3) She DID get credit for the courses. Both the APs and the community college courses. Colleges differ greatly in their treatment of prior coursework.</p>
<p>What goes on in an really depends on the teacher. In AP US History my son had to write two long research papers. In AP Biology he had to do an independent project in the full month that the NY school schedule gives you after the AP. That said, the bio teacher especially complained that a college bio teacher would have had the luxury of emphasizing certain parts of the curriculum and skipping over others - he had to teach it all in case it appeared on the exam. BTW he got a 5 on the APUSH exam despite "wasting time" writing research papers.</p>
<p>I can only speak for my daughter's experience taking both AP courses and CC courses while in high school. Not one AP was accepted even with scores of "3's;" however, she was given credit for all 4 community college courses. Thus, she was able to place out of 4 gen ed requirements. If she had to do it all over again,she would have taken no APs and only CC courses.</p>
<p>There is a distinction between palcement and credit. My S got absolutely no credit toward Advanced Standing for his college courses although he got credit for his AP classes, for which he needed scores of 5; not all AP classes count for credit, however, and colleges vary in their policies. However, the college classes allowed him to place into more advanced classes.</p>
<p>Also, several of the more selective schools don't give credit for CC classes. (And around here, we'd have to pay for them, and the kid would have to find something else to take in the HS in its place; study hall isn't an option.)</p>