AP courses vs. Community College courses

<p>My high school sophmore son received an A in a CC Biology course that counts for CC and Univ of CA credit as well as a full year of Bio in high school. He could end up taking 3 semesters of calculus, 3 semesters of Chem and 3 semesters of Bio before graduating–possibly saving an entire year of college.</p>

<li><p>Will this help his Ivy League application over someone who took AP courses? </p></li>
<li><p>Will this help if he decides to go to UCLA or other UC school over someone who took AP courses?</p></li>
<li><p>For Med School, since he will major in sciences in college, will it hurt that the basic science (pre-med) courses were taken in a Community College rather than an Ivy League or UC school?</p></li>
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<p>Hey
Just like Cal Dad I have a similar problem. Community College courses are very easy and I can pretty much take 1 during night school every year +2 semesters in the summer. I do not understand what is the benefit to take these classes though. </p>

<p>-Will taking these classes be seen by the college and look good? Is there really any reason besides getting credits to do these courses?</p>

<p>NEVER SUBSTITUTE CC CLASSES FOR AP/HIGHSCHOOL CLASSES. IF YOU TAKE THEM ALONG WITH HS CLASSES IT IS FINE. dont know how many times i was told this. i guess it gives you lots of credit so you spend less to graduate from college. it sucks if ivys dont accept the credit (i dont kno if they do or not).</p>

<p>
[quote]
NEVER SUBSTITUTE CC CLASSES FOR AP/HIGHSCHOOL CLASSES. IF YOU TAKE THEM ALONG WITH HS CLASSES IT IS FINE.

[/quote]

How about if you've exhausted classes at your school?</p>

<p>If you have exhausted classes at your school, cc classes are obviously the way to go..at our HS they offer dual enrollment CC classes at the HS location during a zero period. My son took them in place of AP Eng/Govt his senior year. All colleges are different but his college took the credit...so he ended up with those college credits (think saving money) without having the stress of passing an AP test. He also got English credit by passing the AP test, btw. I have no idea about the Ivy's, it probably depends on which CC. For the UCs there is a list of which classes are UC transferrable and they automatically transfer in as credits. As far as whether they hurt or help admission at the UC I don't think they do either. CCs are weighted like APs ....our HS did it differently, if the AP class was worth 5 credits per semester, the CC class was worth 10 credits per semester. Therefore if you took the CC classes and got As you got a bigger percentage of weighted A (5.0) in your overall GPA and toward your class rank. When they do it that way, the CC class is a no brainer, IMHO.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It may or may not, depending on the Ivy. Check at their admission's office.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, it will help. Most community colleges in California have agreements with the UC and USC school systems where some classes at the CC are transferrable as credit; you have to check with your CC to see which classes are and are not transferrable.</p></li>
<li><p>No, it will not. Community colleges offer the same material as a regular university. Plus, I don't think you're son is going to be taking his undergrad level science courses at his CC if he's planning to go to medical school. I don't even think most CCs offer the courses necessary for medical school, as they are for transfer to universities, not medical schools.</p></li>
</ol>

<ol>
<li><p>No. They know that CC classes are a lot easier than AP classes.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes it will. Med schools rather see that applicants took their prereqs at a four-year university because they know that classes are CCs aren't as prestigious and are easier. Community colleges offer most of the classes required for med school (bio, chem, ochem, math etc).</p></li>
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<p>Also, you get the same credits from CC classes and AP tests for bio/chem/math, so taking the AP tests will save you time, too.</p>

<p>Why would CC classes be easier? For one thing, you're doing the material in a semester rather than in a year. For another, the teachers are a lot more likely to have Phd's in the field.</p>

<p>Cal Dad:</p>

<p>The UCs consider juco classes equivalent to APs since it they have to; otherwise it could be discriminatory policy against low income schools that can't offer AP. Yes, your son could start with Soph standing (or higher) at a UC with AP/IB/transferable juco classes. But, note, not all juco classes are UC transferable. For example, basic Bio could be the equivalent to HS bio, and would not be transferable. Intro to Calc may not maynot be transferable -- check your juco transfer listing to UC.</p>

<p>OTOH, the Ivys would generally prefer an AP class over juco class IFF your HS offers the AP class. If your HS does not offer the AP class, then taking it at juco makes a lot of sense.</p>

<p>Med schools do not like to see AP courses to fulfill their basic science requirements. Similarly they'd prefer to see basic science classes taken at a UC rather than a Cal State or juco. But, your son could demonstrate mastery of the basic sciences by taking an advanced bio/chem/physics course at the UC when he matriculates there.</p>

<p>Kattu: the juco courses are typically easier since the curve is not as competitive. Think about taking Physics or Chem at Cal Tech where the average SAT math score is close to 800, vs. taking the same class at Pasadena City College. In which class would it be easier to earn an A? Even the UCs are particuarly competitive for the intro science courses, and curves are brutal -- no grade inflation in those departments.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>if you've exhausted programs at your school, adult/night programs at top schools like Columbia General Studies, Harvard Extension School, or something like the Stanford Distance Learning Project would probably look better than a community college class. You can also get college credit for those if you do well, and Stanford in particular may be more geared for advanced and younger students.</p>

<p>"Kattu: the juco courses are typically easier since the curve is not as competitive. Think about taking Physics or Chem at Cal Tech where the average SAT math score is close to 800, vs. taking the same class at Pasadena City College. In which class would it be easier to earn an A? Even the UCs are particuarly competitive for the intro science courses, and curves are brutal -- no grade inflation in those departments."</p>

<p>I was talking about in comparison to AP, not university classes...</p>

<p>This is good feedback. Thanks--keep it going. I looked at the extensive AP list of classes and it indicated that the AP classes can be tougher than the CC equivalent classes. The Bio 3 Intro class of one semester allowed my son to waive an entire year of Bio in HS. He should qualify for either one year of AP Bio or CC Bio. He is taking CC Algebra that should wipe out a full year of HS algebra. So there are some immediate benefits</p>

<p>My son and I are leaning to the AP courses. Although the bummer is that he will have to take the courses over again somehow to fulfill pre-med requirements. If he is a Bio major in college, he will have more Bio to fulfil pre med, but what about Chem or Calculus--would he have to take that over? That would be dull.</p>

<p>AP applies to all colleges. Harvard and the like will only take 5's, but an A in the class should mean a 5 if the class was taught properly.</p>

<p>CC classes are good for UC's, but I don't know if skipping intro classes is a good idea. Just because you took a class in 10th grade doesn't mean it won't help to retake it in freshman yr.</p>

<p>Cal Dad-</p>

<p>I would post this question over on the Parents Forum. You would definitely get some great advice from parents in the same situation.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>...to the Parent's Forum</p>

<p>I have a comment to make. Yes, to an extent Community college courses (and even some university courses, too) are easier than AP. High school classes (APs) are mostly busy-homework...homework...homework. College class is not. Community college class focuses more on quality (critical thinking) not quantity. Many university (namely stanford) are beggining not to accept AP credits because however they may design it an AP class is an AP class, not a college class.</p>

<p>AP classes (for the most part) teaches student primarily what's on the AP test (which is done through memorization...memorization...memorization). Anybody can memorize anything; but the tricky part is when critical thinking and analysis comes in.</p>

<p>So, in the end, AP classes are harder than community college classes, but that doesn't neccesarily mean it's better. Community college class has a very much mature, adult setting.</p>

<p>"Community college class has a very much mature, adult setting."</p>

<p>just slightly</p>

<p>I would first compare the syllabus of the CC class vs. a corresponding AP course. I had a friend take precalculus last year at our local CC, but they never even touched on the idea of limits...Be careful!</p>

<p>The reality of whether CC classes or AP classes are harder, more mature, better, etc. is frankly irrelevant to the current discussion. The issue is how do colleges consider them, assuming they don't know the rigor of the particular CC (leaving off the UCs and Cal States). They will not compare the syllabus. </p>

<p>Because they do not know the rigor, I believe that most colleges will give more weight to an AP class with a known syllabus in considering applications.</p>

<p>Maybe you guys should read this article (by the Harvard Crimson) concerning colleges "view" about AP courses in general. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=511595%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=511595&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>