AP courses vs Dual Enrollment courses

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks all, we had a great meeting.</p>

<p>For those interested:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>GC confirms that she will get “most rigorous” with current plan which is not “AP every single thing” but “AP most things”.</p></li>
<li><p>GC says not doing 4 years of social studies in order to take extra and more advanced science will be fine. However, with one SS independent study, she can do both, so she may do that.</p></li>
<li><p>She says Calc AB is generally fine even for most selective schools with one exception - Princeton Engineering told her they won’t consider a kid without BC. D can take AB over a summer and then take BC, but both are definitely taught here as full year courses and in order to go ahead she’d have to test out. Spending a summer doing AB vs. doing research in a science lab or something…D will probably choose research.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>(I checked, just because they’re selective, Harvard and MIT’s suggested HS curriculum and neither requires or even recommends 4 years of SS: [Harvard</a> College Admissions § Applying: Frequently Asked Questions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/faq.html#1]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/faq.html#1) and [What</a> To Do In High School | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/highschool]What”>What to do in high school | MIT Admissions) )</p>

<ol>
<li><p>GC says the APs will be more widely accepted than duals and, frankly, better than the duals, at least as offered here. All Ohio schools, public and private, have to take the dual credits but it’s unlikely that schools outside Ohio will take them.</p></li>
<li><p>She thinks D should take the ACT and SAT this spring (she is a sophomore). She talked a lot about score choice and superscoring. We’ll decide this later…I personally think practice tests under timed conditions are fine until junior year (she took the PSAT this past October). I’d like to see her take the PSAT and SAT around the same time next fall (prep for NMS and SAT at once), the ACT perhaps in winter, and the SAT Subjects (Math 2 plus a science) in the spring, with retests of SAT and ACT if necessary in fall of senior year. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Steve, her GPA is 3.9 with all honors and AP so far. PSAT score won’t be back until January. She likes some colleges but mainly the ones she’s studied in summer at (Brown) or knows are “good” (Harvard), or are in NYC (Barnard). She has a good year+ to develop her list and right now I just want to be sure she keeps all her options open with her choices in high school, and also take what she enjoys most.</p>

<p>It looks like GC is going to approve her independent study proposal, which was iffy at one point.</p>

<p>Overall, great meeting. I love our GC, she is always willing to answer questions, email, talk, meet, whatever, and she is very knowledgeable. Also, we got her Naviance login, her very own :)</p>

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<p>Oops, more posts came in as I was typing - thank you all.</p>

<p>Our HS doesn’t weight classes so AP vs non vs. honors vs. dual doesn’t matter for GPA, and the HS doesn’t rank. It only matters as far as how colleges see her transcript’s rigor and frankly, the non- AP classes here would be kind of slow and boring for her.</p>

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<p>Not at our HS. It requires a full year of AB before BC. Don’t know why, just the way they do it.</p>

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<p>Good to consider, thank you ucb.</p>

<p>…and she is in orchestra and will not give it up. I’m OK with that. She’s done it since 5th grade and it’s a bit like a break in the middle of the day for her…she’s not had nor will she have a study hall. She’ll never follow her brother (a music major in college now), but she loves it and that’s a great reason to keep it.</p>

<p>She plays two sports too, and those aren’t going anywhere either.</p>

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<p>It sounds like you were given wise advice. Our experience has also been that AP is preferred over cc (for the same course) - except at state schools where it didn’t matter.</p>

<p>My middle son opted to do 3 social studies courses (took 6 science classes) and it didn’t hurt him a bit. I had contacted a couple of colleges he thought he would be interested in and they told us it would be fine as long as he could explain his selections if asked.</p>

<p>I think our state may have changed the requirements since, but it didn’t affect his year (current college freshman doing extremely well).</p>

<p>As others have noted… if at all interested in pre-med, be careful with cc classes. Many med schools don’t like to see them in pre-req courses (other courses are fine). If you take any, they do count toward the GPA for med schools even if the college chosen doesn’t accept them (middle son’s didn’t - they did accept AP).</p>

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<p>Both, would honestly be a good idea. Now is your D going to have a total of five classes at HS + DE or seven + DE? Either way, in the time you take 1 AP at HS you can complete 2 DE (1 each semester) and it guarantees solid credit instead of hoping you pass the AP exam.</p>

<p>It’s also an insane boost of your GPA.</p>

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<p>Is it possible that too many dual enrollment classes would render a student ineligible for “freshman only” scholarship opportunities? I have heard a rumor (have no factual basis) that HS students with a significant number of dual enrollment credits may be considered by some colleges as transfer students rather than regular in-coming freshman, which would put them out of the running for merit $ awards. Does anyone know if this is true?</p>

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<p>It may differ from school to school, but in our state, for the schools that my kids applied to it’s not an issue. College classes taken prior to high school graduation do not make you a transfer student - you’re still an entering freshman.</p>

<p>D2 transferred 35 hours, D3 will transfer about the same amount, but will have earned 59 combined AP & Dual.</p>

<p>Both of them are public in-state schools, one of them a flagship. There was no problem. Both got merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>WalkingTessie-most schools state that classes that count for both college credit and high school credit do not alter the incoming status of a student. Classes taken on a college campus that do NOT count for high school credits can put a student into a high class standing which could cost them thousands in scholarship dollars.</p>

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<p>ian - good point that duals are two college courses and APs are one. GPA doesn’t matter here, no boost for dual or AP as our HS doesn’t compute a weighted GPA. No rank, no val/sal.</p>

<p>The only dual I can see her taking is one of the 4 listed above, to be a social studies course. Like maybe Psych.</p>

<p>She’s doing an independent study in neuroscience this next semester with two mentors, a HS science teacher and a neuro prof from a nearby LAC…if it goes well she may try that again next year but more advanced work/more research. That will be a full (high school, semester) science credit as well.</p>

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<p>My D is not applying for top level schools, and all of her mid-range schools (all privates) have indicated they will take DE. Most of her DE classes have come from a Governor’s STEM academy program (she is on the computer/technology side, not the math side, of STEM).</p>

<p>At my D’s school, her English class is combined AP/DE. If you want the community college credit, you pay the tuition. If you want to take the AP, you take the test. Or, you can cover your bases and do both.</p>

<p>Other AP or DE classes she has taken are designated as just AP or just DE, although of course you can always take the AP exam in a DE class.</p>

<p>Both are weighted at 5.0.</p>

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<p>Interesting! I think I looked for a governor’s program for our state and we don’t have one (our current governor has been a big cutter of education programs). How does that work for your D?</p>

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<p>Surprisingly, my son’s school, MIT, took community college transfer credits (Calc II, Calc II, Linear Alg., Dif Equ, two semesters of Arabic), so don’t absolutely rule out top schools doing that.</p>

<p>My son doubled up on AP/DE in all the math and physics courses. When he took a class at the CC, he would take the corresponding AP exam. He had 55 units of college credit but only took, I think, 6 AP exams.</p>

<p>Keep in mind we’re homeschoolers so YMMV depending on your school.</p>

<p>OHmomof2, sounds like you have a rockin’ GC to work with! :-)</p>

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<p>The psychology course is probably the one of your list that is closest to a “standard” introductory course, and therefore one most likely accepted for placement and subject credit at the largest number of colleges. The others may have no equivalents at many colleges, so they may give credit units but no placement or subject credit, or nothing at all if the college does not give credit units for college courses taken while in high school.</p>

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<p>sbj, we are very luck as she is AWESOME. Our meeting was an hour and a half and she’s glad to do it again anytime if we want. She’s also very knowledgeable.</p>

<p>Interesting to know that MIT took the DE credits…how is S enjoying the more traditional atmosphere of college vs being homeschooled? Or did he mostly go to CC towards the end of his homeschooling in HS?</p>

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<p>ucb Psych makes some sense too, since she’s doing an IS in neuroscience, coming from a bio background, but has never taken psych. Not saying she wants to do neuro in college but it does tie in for her in HS.</p>

<p>Someone on another thread referred to neuroscience as the “new Art History”. Meaning career opportunities are few and not well paid. Ouch.</p>

<p>It’s the first non-traditional thing she’s been interested in, no doubt because she took it at Brown last summer. The disease aspect particularly interests her, which of course makes mom think of a career in health (MD, PA) or research :)</p>

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<p>Based on what sbjdorlo wrote elsewhere, they were just regular community college courses, and MIT individually evaluated them after enrollment. However, since these were likely fairly standard lower division math courses transferable to the UCs and CSUs, that probably was not the big a deal for placement into higher level math courses (MIT’s lower division math courses are accelerated, but not necessarily more in depth unless one takes the “with theory” honors versions).</p>

<p>Most colleges evaluate language placement based on actual proficiency, regardless of whether the language knowledge was gained in high school, college, or home (native or heritage speaker).</p>

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<p>Yes, you’re right, ucb. I said DE but they were standard lower division college math courses. And the Arabic courses were counted as electives only, since MIT doesn’t have a language requirement (I don’t think?) and doesn’t offer Arabic anyways, as far as I know.</p>

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<p>If neuroscience is done with a biology emphasis, then the job prospects are probably not good – the number of biology majors graduating each year is large compared to the number of biology-specific jobs.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Good to consider as she thinks about the future.</p>

<p>She’s doing a one day Women in Engineering program in a month, sponsored by our state flagship…based on that day she may or may not target a summer program in engineering. As a kid who is into science and math, engineering seems like a good option to explore, as do the med/health professions.</p>

<p>…then I remember that she is only 15 :)</p>

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<p>Remember that only a small percentage of aspiring pre-med freshmen eventually get admitted to any MD medical school in the US.</p>