<p>At our HS, there is a pretty robust dual enrollment program. Yet people still seem to be drawn to the AP system, and I cannot figure out why!</p>
<p>Most of the HS students that go on to college attend college in state. The dual classes offered are widely accepted by the colleges in state, and your college credit does not hinge on your performance on one test alone. Plus, the classes more closely mimic the structure and pace of an actual college class - well, because they ARE actual college classes (albeit junior college).</p>
<p>My AP classes were far more challenging than the dual enrollment classes I had. Those were a joke in comparison.</p>
<p>Most kids here max out their AP choices by junior year so senior year, most of the college bound kids are taking a lot of dual enrollment classes. We’ve found that unless you do go to your state schools, one isn’t better than the other because the policy at most colleges is pretty uniform if they take AP credits/dual enrollment credits or not. For our kids it just gives them another level of classes to take, and in the long run saves the schools money. Most kids take college level foreign languages, for example. That saves the school from having to hire another teacher in the 3 subjects taught (plus benefits, etc.). Most kids that do this end up testing out of a couple years of college language courses and allows them to get a major without having to take a lot of extra classes. If they didn’t have this option, most kids would be done with foreign language as juniors (or the schools would have to hire more teachers).</p>
<p>Our dual enrollment classes are run through our flagship, not through the community colleges. The AP classes are far beyond what the CC classes teach so they would not really be an option for the college bound kids here.</p>
<p>I guess it just depends on the school and the teacher. At our HS, AP classes are sometimes not taught by the best possible candidate - while the dual classes are ALWAYS taught by a college professor. The dual classes my kids have taken have varied - some easy classes, some exceptionally tough.</p>
<p>Although, I found that most of my college classes were not quite as challenging as some of my HS classes. They taught me to think more, and they were more fun, but not as tough many times.</p>
<p>SteveMA - An AP class often gets you 2 semesters of college credit, while a dual class is obviously one semester. I would expect an AP class to teach more than a regular college class.</p>
<p>My youngest took dual govt. I & II in the summer and knocked out all of her political science requirements for college in 3 months.</p>
<p>Perhaps because they know that if they take the college courses, the rest of the students will be drawn from the less able/less motivated graduates of their own and other HSs? That would be the case here.</p>
<p>In some places the most able HS students take CC courses. Not here. Our CC doesn’t even offer calculus, the last time I checked.</p>
<p>Here is what the research says at my state flagship…</p>
<p>Community college transfers that come in with 30- 60 transfer hours have a CC average GPA of 3.15.</p>
<p>Their average GPA in classes taken at the flagship falls down to about 2.5.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the average GPA of non transfers increases each and every year that they are in school.</p>
<p>CC classes are clearly not as difficult as the same flagship classes. I suspect that in many cases, AP classes are a better prep for college than CC classes.</p>
<p>Consolation: Oh. That’s certainly not the case here. Our CC is really a junior college and even offers some 4 year degrees. They definitely have Calculus I & II, Chemistry, Physics, Biology I & II, etc. MANY English classes - HEAVY HEAVY technical and management classes. The classes transfer very well too.</p>
<p>Haystack - I agree. They are certainly not as difficult at a CC as they are at a flagship. No doubt. I don’t think AP classes typically are either though.</p>
<p>cromette, could it be a matter of students who are NOT aiming at the state schools not wanting to be treated as transfers?</p>
<p>cromette—IF the credits apply. Most of the schools our kids applied to either don’t take AP credits at all, some will give credit for a 4 or 5 but ONLY outside of their major, some will use the AP test scores for placement. NONE of the schools take direct transfer credits from AP for most AP classes. The only class we’ve found where they do get some generous credit is getting a 4 or 5 on the BC Calc test at most of the schools, but not all. Again, if you go to your state schools, the transfer credits are pretty good. In our kids’ case, if they went to our state flagship, for example, their Spanish credits would transfer over credit for credit-so a full year’s credit since they are taking a full year’s class. They aren’t going there so it doesn’t matter for them.</p>
<p>Our CC are not very good. They are tech schools for the most part where kids can get certificates to be electricians, hair stylists, etc.</p>
<p>I would take both if you can. D1’s school wouldn’t take her AP credit, but would have taken dual enrollment CC classes. D1 had a friend who did all dual enrollment and her school wouldn’t take any of those classes, but would have taken AP classes. Both schools were private OOS. If you can do both, then you should get some credits out of both.</p>
<p>Consolation - That would make TOTAL sense, except that out of 400 graduates, I would say maybe only 8 max. would be going to a highly competitive non-state school. Most people going to private are going to one of several religious affiliated universities that are relatively nearby and while they are very good schools, they are not that difficult to get into, especially if you belong to that denomination. A few will go to one of four very prestigious nearby private schools (maybe 6 tops), and you may have a couple going to ivies.</p>
<p>The highest concentration go to one of the two big flagships, and then you have the rest sprinkled in here and there.</p>
<p>cromette–at our school of about 550/grade, we had 8 kids get into Harvard…only one is going there though, the others are at other top schools. The top 20% or so of our school generally end up at top institutions, some at the IT schools at various flagships, others at Ivy or similar. It depends on what the kids want to study though. Our DS doesn’t need to go to an Ivy or similar school, and they don’t have his major anyway so why would he? You have to realize that there are large differences in various geographical regions. Very few kids in our school go to the “regular” school at our flagship but a large number to to flagships in other states (Madison, Purdue, Iowa, Iowa State, etc.–usually for engineering, pharmacy, etc.).</p>
<p>Compare that to the high school where my parents live and the top kids in the graduating class there are going to community colleges for their AA. No reason for those kids to take AP classes or DE classes.</p>
<p>SteveMA, the more I see about CC’s on this board the more I realize how very fortunate we are to have our junior college. It has those programs you are talking about, but it has so much more as well. I guess we are just very blessed.</p>
<p>We don’t need classes at the CC level though, the kids can take the DE credits through the flagship, for free, which is probably why the CC programs haven’t expanded. Again, just do your research. You said on another thread that your youngest will have 59 credit hours. If our son went to our flagship he would have 60, so the same. However, at the schools to which he applied, the most generous school for credits will give him a total of 16 based on their policies, 10 of those for his BC Calc test. It isn’t as cut and dried as they make it seem through these programs. If your child is applying to your state schools, they are VERY nice, however, outside of that, it’s hit or miss so don’t count on having those credits until you know for sure where he will go.</p>
<p>SteveMA - yes, we have a lot of kids that just go to the CC to get their AA - and I’m not really talking about them so much. I’m talking about the ones that will actually go off to college.</p>
<p>Incidentally, our CC will not accept AP credit! LOL</p>
<p>I don’t know of any CC that would take AP credits, why would they and I was talking about kids going off to 4 year colleges, just don’t count on those CC credits transferring to a 4 year school if he doesn’t go to a state school.</p>
<p>Steve MA, yes she will have 59 - but you’re right, for her particular degree, probably only about 18 will be truly useful as far as hour credit goes. She might squeeze out credit for one more 4 hour class out of her 8 hours of Chemistry. However, I think her AP calculus will be useful just for the experience. She’ll retake Calculus I to make sure she’s sound.</p>