AP Credit and Saving Money?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>How exactly can receiving AP credit save you money. My understanding is that getting AP credit for Penn (1 c.u.) can either give you that credit and possibly except you from a certain requirement. However, you are not studying for any less years; you will still be there for 4 years, just take more advanced courses. As far as I know, Penn doesn't charge per course/credit but simply by semester/yearly tuition. So how exactly can AP credit save you money at Penn/Wharton?</p>

<p>Also is it even advisable to take AP credit and skip classes at Penn/Wharton, since those classes are at an Ivy Level and probably go more in depth than a high school course.</p>

<p>Do courses you receive credit for from AP classes in high school show up on your college transcript, or simply the credits?</p>

<p>Fyi, if this helps answer your question, I took 3 APs last year and 6APs this year, for a total possible of 9 AP tests taken (jut not sure whether i want to/its worth it to take every test).</p>

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<p>It's always worth it to take the tests; you're basically paying an $80 option cost (you're in Wharton, right? :-)) that can open many doors at a $50k/year university. You've already taken the class - the marginal cost for the test is so small compared to the expected marginal benefit.</p>

<p>You won't directly save money at a school like Penn. As a full-time student, you pay the same rate whether you take 4 or more classes each semester. </p>

<p>Most people use the credit to get out of requirements (like sciences, math, foreign language, or something else), or to place into a higher level class (computer science, math, foreign language, physical sciences). ** You can indeed save money in a few ways:**</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Graduating early. If you're in a dual degree or double major, you can turn what might be a 4.5 or 5 year course of study into 4 years, or avoid needing to take summer classes. Looking at all the students who either graduate in 3 or 3.5 years with a single major, or 4 years with a double major/ double degree, it's over 50% of the class.</p></li>
<li><p>Graduating a semester early, or taking part-time classes during your senior year. In the spring of your senior year, you can take 1, 2, or 3 classes for reduced tuition at a per class rate. This can be worth $5k, $10k, or more. This is VERY popular.</p></li>
<li><p>Getting a Master's degree or additional coursework, or studying abroad. These things are harder to price, but if you can get an advanced degree in your 4 years (not really possible for Wharton, but huge for engineers) or study abroad when other situations wouldn't have allowed it, you can really get a leg up in your career. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Those credits WILL show up on your transcript. You won't get a "grade" but you'll still get the credit. In some cases, it's a normal penn course number, and in some cases it's a special course number designated to stand for AP credit, which is then equivalent to some other class. Depends on the case (and if you have specific AP classes you're concerned about, post them and I can tell you.)</p>

<p>In most cases, if it's a general requirement, you don't want to get stuck taking the Penn version of the class, as it will be way harder and way more competitive. In a few cases (like econ) Wharton has a completely different curriculum and you may want to do that instead. An old rule of thumb I've heard is get AP credit for the electives/general requirements, and take the Penn version of the courses in your major.</p>

<p>The only area where I would say skip the test is if Penn truly does not offer credit AT ALL for the course (like Gov or Music Theory) AND you would need to study a lot for the test. If something came easy to you and you could get an easy 5, go ahead and take the test to get the score even if Penn might not offer credit - you never know where it might help you some day.</p>

<p>Personally, I'm getting two degrees in 4 years when many of my peers in the program are going to stick around for a 5th year. I'm glad I got those 11 AP credits.</p>

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<p>Thanks mattwonder,</p>

<p>Yes I will be attending Wharton and, for now, am planning to do a Finance concentration and possibly an Accounting concentration on top of that. (a side note from this thread, but what do you know about double concentrations and their difficulty/reward/etc.)</p>

<p>As for AP courses you mentioned, mine are (9):</p>

<ol>
<li>AP Calc AB (5)</li>
<li>AP US Hist (5)</li>
<li><p>AP Eng Lang & Comp (4) ...won't get credit for that but I am taking AP Lit this year and may get a 5 (hopefully)</p></li>
<li><p>AP Stats</p></li>
<li><p>AP Calc BC</p></li>
<li><p>AP Bio</p></li>
<li><p>AP Lit</p></li>
<li><p>AP Spanish</p></li>
<li><p>AP Gov</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>So there's no "grade" for AP courses, but what about classes that I've taken at another respectable university of equal caliber? For instance, I've gotten A+/4.33 in three upper level math/finance courses at Columbia, will Penn give a "grade" for these? Thanks. (I will be attending Wharton too)</p>

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<p>wow! Columbia weighs A+s as 4.33? Does Penn/Wharton do the same?</p>

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<p>ivy24:</p>

<p>Only Calc BC gets credit at Penn. US Hist can be used for an elective in distribution req's. (Good thing). Bio is also used for an elective in distribution reqs - basically AP credit for Us hist and Bio means that those are two fewer general requirements you have to take (which are good things, as low-level science and history classes at Penn are pretty competitive). Stats and BC would be very helpful to have 5s in for Wharton, as they would eliminate requirements, as would a 4 or 5 in Spanish (which could eliminate up to 4 classes). The other thing about spanish is that if your AP test goes poorly, you can always take the SAT II or Penn test to get credit also.</p>

<p>Gov isn't worth anything, so you might want to skip that test if you got in ED. A 5 in AP Lit will give you one "free" credit - which may come in handy but doesn't directly eliminate any courses, so you might want to skip that test too.</p>

<p>I would consider skipping the Gov and Lit tests, so you can focus studying on the Stat, Bio, Spanish and Calc tests, if you KNOW you're going to Penn (got in ED).</p>

<p>I'd rank the classes in the following order, in terms of where you need to get 5's in order to help you overall:
1. Spanish - clears out 4 required courses
2. Calc BC - clears out 1 required, very competitive course
3. Stat - clears out 1 required course
4. Bio - clears out 1 science elective (which Wharton students generally don't enjoy)
5. Lit - clears out 1 general "credit" which means you only need 36 credits to graduate instead of 37 (but individual course requirements stay the same, so this doesn't do much)
6. Gov - does nothing</p>

<p>Sorry if that was a long response. It's taken me 4 years to fully understand curriculum at Penn.</p>

<p>Code Monkey:</p>

<p>I don't know if Penn gives grades from transfer credit. Transcripts list "University of Pennsylvania Coursework" (which have grades) and "Penn Equivalent Courses" (which do not). I doubt you will get grades for Columbia courses, and they won't count toward your Penn GPA. The thing that makes me hesitate is I recall people getting grades from courses taken abroad, but those may have been actual Penn classes. It's not really an equal caliber thing - they just don't give grades for classes at other schools.</p>

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<p>thank you mattwonder!</p>

<p>And yes, i did get into Wharton ED so your advice is very helpful. Do you go to Wharton? For BC calc and Stats, would i basically go into a higher calc class and higher level stat class?</p>

<p>Also, for bio, do you still have to take a science course & lab even if you get the science elective credit?</p>

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<p>Thanks mattwonder!</p>

<p>I have another question. Do you think AP Chinese will also clear out 4 required courses? I have the option of taking AP French or AP Chinese, but French will be a lot harder. Are foreign languages weighed the same?</p>

<p>BTW if you don't mind me asking, what two degrees did you get? Were you able to study abroad while managing two degrees at the same time?</p>

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<p>hey mattwonder thanks for your great tips
I also got in ED and plan to major in PPE at CAS, so i don't really wanna focus too much on sciences, if i get a 5 in physics this year and use the 5 i got in bio in 10th grade can that place me out of science in penn or do i still have more to go?
oh and for something like ppe should i use the history credits i have (from us and world) or just retake the classes, they're not exactly related to the major but i do enjoy history</p>

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<p>ivy24:
I'm in M&T (Wharton and Engineering). BC Calc will get you credit for Math 104, the only calc required for Wharton (but would also place you into 114, if you're quantitatively inclined, which is a good class to have for wharton). Stat will let you skip stat 101 and take just stat 102. Wharton students need both 101 and 102. For bio, I believe you just need 2 or 3 "science" courses, which an AP would cover. However a lot of Wharton students like to take Victimology and Criminology, two easy science classes. No labs are required, AFAIK. More info on reqs is here: The</a> Wharton School - Undergraduate Division</p>

<p>deeboggle: I don't know if they give AP credit for Chinese (according to here: Penn</a> Admissions: Advanced Placement Policy , no). I think you'd need to take the SAT II. All foreign languages are weighed the same and a 4 or 5 in French would get you credit. (Latin and sign languages are not considered foreign languages by Penn, but are by some high schools). I'm receiving a BS in Econ from Wharton, with concentrations in management and statistics, and a BS in Engineering, majoring in Computer Science. I didn't go abroad because I didn't have any interest in it at the time (though I could have).</p>

<p>pinkdino: I can't really speak about the major requirements for PPE. The reqs are here: School</a> of Arts & Sciences - University of Pennsylvania<a href="but%20that%20doesn't%20list%20the%20general%20reqs%20for%20the%20college,%20which%20is%20where%20natural%20science%20would%20fall">/url</a>. The gen ed reqs are here: [url=<a href="http://www.college.upenn.edu/admissions/general.php%5DPenn">http://www.college.upenn.edu/admissions/general.php]Penn</a> College of Arts & Sciences > General Education but I have no idea what that actually means. This page (Curriculum</a> 2010 and Later: Sectors) might help you more. As for history, no class at penn will correspond to AP US or AP Euro (those subjects would each have like 10 courses at Penn), so you've got plenty of flexibility there to use those credits to fulfill some requirement and then take whatever else you feel like.</p>

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<p>Wow, this thread is so helpful!!</p>

<p>I'm planning on doing biochemistry/music double major (CAS). My question is: should I use AP Bio credit and go straight into 124? Or should I take the introductory class again since it's technically a class in my major.
Wait, no! I have a few more questions...Would taking BC calc and placing out of 104 be advisable? I think it's required for bio/pre-med. Should I just go into 114/115 right away because I'll be a double major?
Would credit from Stats get me out of any math or other distribution requirements?
LAST QUESTION -- is it true that I need a 650 on the SAT II to place out of a language requirement? And what if I'm fluent in a language but have not taken the AP or SAT II for it? </p>

<p>Thank you so much!!</p>

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<p>thanks mattwonder for the help!</p>

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<p>Bio 121 is recommended for people with AP Bio credit and focuses more on molecular biology (as opposed to 101/102 which I hear is a more general bio course with some molecular bio but also involves topics such as ecology) I think 124 is the lab that goes with or after 121...</p>

<p>One thing you could do is jump straight into 114/115 and see how it goes; if it's too hard, you can always drop down to 104. Read through this page on the math department site: [url=<a href="http://www.math.upenn.edu/ugrad/advising.html%5DAdvice%5B/url"&gt;http://www.math.upenn.edu/ugrad/advising.html]Advice[/url&lt;/a&gt;] It discusses different options you have. For Pre-Med, most med schools only require one semester of calc (plus one semester of stat) so if you take 114/115 that will fulfill that requirement.</p>

<p>Language departments also offer placements tests, usually held during NSO or the first week of classes (some are available online even), that can place you out of the language requirement.</p>

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<p>Thanks CDN_dancer for hitting CrystalPineapple's questions. I'll add a few points:
I think think in this case you should go into the second class (121?) if you took Bio your senior year, and it is fresh in your mind, or you learned the material very well. Skipping 101/102 could be good, as it can be a very competitive class. </p>

<p>College</a> Biochemistry Program has more information about the biochemistry major reqs. Note that only one biology course is needed; I'm not sure if you can count AP Bio toward that, but you might be able to use it for <em>placement</em> into bio 121 and thus take a topic you haven't covered instead of 101 (which would be old material). </p>

<p>I would definitely recommend going straight into Math 114 if you do have Calc BC credit (which is equivalent to Math 104). Both Math 104 and Math 114 will be required for your biochem major, and 114 isn't measurably harder per se than 104. Just take it seriously - college math classes are much harder than HS math classes. IMHO getting a 5 on BC Calc is easier than getting an A in Math 104 at Penn, so if you have the opportunity to do so, do it.</p>

<p>I believe the college has a quantitative data requirement which STAT 111 fills (which you would receive credit for with AP stat), so AP stat would indeed fill a requirement.</p>

<p>Language</a> Placement has the foreign language placement/credit details. It depends on the language as to what you need to do. Generally, taking an SAT II in this upcoming June while the language is fresh in your head is easier/safer than taking the department exams. (It really helps to have that score in-hand when scheduling classes for next year, rather than waiting to get to campus). As a rule of thumb, the requirement is 4 classes of a language, and it's helpful to get a 650 (or 4 or 5 or whatever) to place out of language, but it's also popular to get a 550, place into the 4th and final class, and take that one class pass-fail.</p>

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<p>Do you have any suggestions for course scheduling for engineering? I have looked at the reqs for electrical engineering, and it seems that other than math 104 (5 on the BC test, which I have), AP credit doesn't do much in the way of taking out the science requirements (which appear to all be higher level classes than what the AP science tests give credit for). I'm guessing that some of these AP credits might help me out with technical/other electives, but I'm not sure.</p>

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<p>This thread has been very helpful. Thanks to those who have responded.</p>

<p>I have some clear cut questions. I have taken AP Calc BC, AP Micro and AP Macro and got 5's on all three of them.</p>

<p>Does this exempt me from Math 104, Econ 001, Econ 002 and Econ 10?
Math 104 is the only required math course for the college and Wharton right? </p>

<p>Also do a lot of Freshmen take Math 114? (Do the people placed out of Math 104 have to take another math course freshmen year to replace it?)
How is that course compared to Math 115. (I know that you cannot take both)</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>Your fives will get you out of 001 and 002, or 010.<br>
(The</a> Wharton School - Undergraduate Division)
(Penn</a> Admissions: Advanced Placement Policy)</p>

<p>Wharton students are only required to take 104. (The</a> Wharton School - Undergraduate Division)</p>

<p>Lots of freshmen take 114, as it is required for lots of majors. </p>

<p>"In general, Math 114, Calculus, Part II is taken by students in the natural sciences, engineering and economics. Math 114 prepares students for the more advanced Calculus courses Math 240 and 241. Those who do not plan to take Math 240 may still want to consider taking Math 114. Wharton students should take Math 114 (Wharton does not permit its students to take Math 115). "</p>

<p>"Math 115, Calculus, Part II with Probability and Matrices is for students who do not plan to take more calculus such as Math 240, and want an introduction to probability and matrices."
(Advice</a>)</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone!! This thread is amazing.</p>

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<p>For electrical engineering, see here: The</a> Department of Electrical and Systems Engineering (ESE) at the University of Pennsylvania // Bachelor of Science in Engineering (BSE) Programs</p>

<p>An AP credit might count for the natural science elective. You might get credit for one of the listed natural science classes - you'd have to ask an adviser about the specific policy. AP Physics C would cover part of the 150 / 151 requirements, meaning you would only need to take a lab portion of the class (but no lecture). (The same may be true for Chem). AP Computer science would get you out of the first (110) and possibly second (116) courses. Any AP history classes would go toward the SSH requirements.</p>

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<p>Pexbo - what school are you in, and what is your intended major? Where those AP credits will take you depends a lot on your major - very different outcome depending on whether you were doing Wharton or econ in college, for example.</p>