<p>Actually, if you take an AP course, colleges like to see that you tried your hand at the actual AP test, regardless if you passed it or not. I'm not sure if 1's are necessarily good, but 2's aren't as bad as some people think. </p>
<p>Taking a certain amount of AP tests and receiving good scores can actually help you win awards. A couple months ago, I got the AP scholar award, which is for taking 3 or more AP tests and receiving an average score of 3. Its pretty much your basic award, but it was something to add to my applications. So in that respect, it definitely helps you in the admissions process by having colleges see that you challenged yourself.</p>
<p>AP scores matter a lot. They definitely help with admissions, especially at the most selective universities. Other than the SAT II tests, which test at the "high school level," APs are the only nationally normed subject-material tests that adcoms have to look at.</p>
<p>None .. as in NOT ONE... of my kids, my sister's kids, or my kids' closest personal friends sent in their scores on the AP tests (mostly 5s, a few 4s) until after they got accepted, and they are all at top ten LACS, top twenty universities, and Ivies. </p>
<p>Yes, AP classes on your transcript are a great thing, but since (for example) senior year AP tests aren't even scored when people are applying, they are not necessary to send in. </p>
<p>I interviewed for an Ivy for over 15 years, and I saw that the test scores were used for placement, not admission. And except for a few math geniuses, this Ivy did not believe that 10th graders and below were really doing "college level" work and so did not even care about APs at that level. And they TOTALLY ignored "AP Lite" (their term) for such courses as AP Psychology, Env. Science, and about a dozen others.</p>
<p>nedad - why in the world did your daughter and her friends withhold good AP scores from their apps???!!! The fact that they got into good schools anyway does not in any way <em>prove</em> that AP scores don't count. It just proves that they are not the <em>only</em> thing that counts, and that these kids had plenty of other things going for them. Let's take a more extreme example... does winning the Siemens-Westinghouse competition "count" for admissions? Of course it does! Siemens and similar award winners can go anywhere they want if the rest of their app is even remotely reasonable. The fact that many people get into good colleges w/o winning Siemens does not mean that someone who has won it should leave it off their apps. </p>
<p>I agree with you that some AP exams "count" more than others. But some courses also count more than others. A good or bad grade in a subject like gym, health, or band will not help or hurt you as much as a good or bad grade in calculus, English, or history. But that doesn't mean that grades don't count! </p>
<p>And whether or not any AP course/exam grade is considered equivalent to college work is irrelevant. That goes to the issue of whether or not the college will give credit after the student is admitted. It has nothing to do with whether or not it counts for admissions. Grades in high school courses count for admissions, even though they have nothing to do with college level work. The same with AP scores. Good grades in AP courses (or a given school's equivalent) prove that you attempted to challenge yourself. But AP courses run the gamut from great to awful. Unlike your course grade, good AP scores prove that you actually covered the subject according to national standards. Why would ad coms, who require SAT IIs, ignore such a useful measure of work done at a higher level?</p>
<p>Some AP scores don't count for admissions. Those are the ones that colleges never see because they are taken at the end of senior year, after admission decisions, or scores that are not reported by the student or the school. But good scores that students have in hand at the time they apply should always be reported. AP scores that the ad coms know about count! That's why so many selective colleges have space on the apps for AP (and IB) scores to be listed.</p>
<p>Texas137: they didn't deliberately "withold" them. No one asked for them, and they (as with my Ivy) felt they were only important for placement, not admissions.</p>
<p>every college my son applied to this year - Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Caltech, asked for them. (for Harvard it's on the supplement, not the Common App). Check the apps for some of the colleges you are talking about. Maybe they have added this question since your daughter and her friends applied. It's also possible that your daughter's high school reported them as part of her transcript.</p>
<p>Of all of the indicators of success that high school students can gather, nothing predicts success in college better than a large number of high AP scores. Not SAT I, not SAT II, not class rank, and not not GPA in high school. To think that this is not useful (and not highly utilized) at very selective universities is to not understand the system. APs count for a lot in admissions, especially at the top schools.</p>
<p>I agree with nedad. My son did not send in a single AP test result as part of his applications last year. He was accepted at several top schools.</p>
<p>No, APs are not on our high school's transcripts. I suspect that the people getting their knickers in a twist over this are using magical thinking, hoping their kids great AP scores will get them in. For their sake, I hope so too. I am not telling anyone not to send them in. If your kid got a 5 in Calculus or Physics junior year, by all means send it in (the others mean less). But there are just way, way WAY too many kids who don't bother, who get into top ten schools every year. They simply are not <em>necessary</em> for admission. That's it, and that's a fact that won't be changed by repeated posting.</p>
<p>Reasonabledad: after 30 years experience in universities, 15 not just as an interviewer but with extremely close contact with adcoms, and on two different major university committees, with two Ivy degrees, I think I do have at least a wee bit of an idea on how the system works.</p>
<p>
[quote]
They simply are not <em>necessary</em> for admission. That's it, and that's a fact that won't be changed by repeated posting.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>nedad, no one has said that they are <em>necessary</em>. The original question was "Do AP exams help admissions?" The fact that some kids do or don't get into top schools with or without reporting them does not answer the question. And if I am one of the folks you believe has their "knickers in a wad" and is engaged in "magical thinking", well, my child is already in. And he would be in with or without his AP scores. But I still say that the evidence is overwelming that admissions officers look at them and that good scores help in admission. Why else would college apps ask for them? Do you think they are going to ask for them and then Wite-Out that part of the app? Check whichever Ivy/Ivies with which you were most closely associated; does their current application ask for them (Harvard & Princeton both do)? Do you want kids on this forum to withhold them based on your opinion? </p>
<p>A couple of good AP scores won't overcome an application that is essentially weak otherwise. Neither will a couple of good grades or a couple of good SAT II scores or a couple of low-level awards. Nonetheless, all of those things "count", and every good bit you have on your app "helps" in the sense of making the overall package better. An app is made up of many, many little bits of info.</p>
<p>This is from Harvard's admissions FAQ:
[quote]
Does Harvard consider non-required test results, such as Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate, Abitur, or GCE A-levels?
Yes. We value any information that helps us form a complete picture of an applicant's academic interests and strengths.
<p>National AP Scholar
Granted to students in the United States who receive an average grade of at least 4 on all AP Exams taken, and grades of 4 or higher on eight or more of these exams. </p>
<p>so to be safe, I should take like 10 exams I know really well. That will give me a chance to get 3's on 2 tests ( maybe a bad day) and still get the award( as long as I get 2 5's)</p>
<p>how many national ap scholar awards are given? From what I've seen on this board, it doesn't seem uncommon for someone to fulfill the requirements.</p>
<p>Around 6000 this past year, I believe. Google will probably have the answers.</p>
<p>I got the Justnormal AP Scholar award, but I'm going to be taking four or five more and I got 5s on the three I took, so I have an outside shot at it.</p>
<p>ronlivs - CB just changed the counting system this past fall, so that all exams now count the same instead of the former whole-year / half-year business. That means that there will be more AP awards at every level in 2005 than there have been in the past. (they made the change retroactive for 2004).</p>
<p>So there are much more ap national scholars than state scholars...that means ap state scholar is more prestigious? I am a junior right now and am taking ap physics B...my school does not offer physics C. I understand that physics B only gives credit towards college physics and if I am to major in the sciences, the credit would be useless. I am thinking of self-studying for physics C mechanics exam. Do you think it's worth it?</p>
<p>I don't know about other universities, but at Columbia the credit that you get is the same for making a 4/5 on the B exam or a 4/5 on both parts of the C exam. Look at the AP credit at the colleges that you're interested in to make the decision.</p>
<p>My teacher had told me that scoring a 4/5 on the physics B would only grant credit towards a non-algebra based college physics course. However, a science major would have to take a calculus based university physics course, which the physics B ap will not give credit for, making it pointless to take the physics B exam. I'm still not really sure; I've heard that the physics C mechanics is relatively easier, but the electricity and magnetism is very difficult. Is it 80 dollars per test, or 80 dollars for both of them?</p>