Couple questions for others:
How many classes is your HSer enrolled in at a time (assuming a full schedule)? The norm at our kids’ HS was 7 (on a block schedule).
Did any of the AP classes lead to taking 2 tests (for a single class year?) Ours did this for government (combining US and comparitive), Econ (Micro & Macro) and the higher level physics class (E&M and Mechanics). So, just from those 3 classes you get 6 AP tests (if you sign up for them)…
7 classes and yes, some courses had 2 AP tests.
My D’s HS limited students to 1 AP sophomore year, and 3 junior and senior year, but DE classes were also allowed with permission.
Doubling up on courses you wanted to take was not only allowed but encouraged as she went to a STEM focused HS.
I’m curious—at your school, what are those 4 hardest APs? (I’m guessing AP Lit & Calculus, but which science? Which history?)
At our private HS on a trimester system, the minimum was 5 classes, and many students would sometimes take 6. This doesn’t include the athletic requirement, which could be filled through sports, PE classes, or various approvable alternatives.
Due to our very limited APs, none were 2-test classes.
5 on a trimester schedule
Two could lead to multiple exams: Physics C: Mechanics and E&M and Micro/Macro, although students could just take the first part of the course. While Comp Gov was offered, US Gov (more accurately, a US gov course that aligned with the AP test) was not.
7 classes per semester, only 6 can be “core”, the 7th has to be an elective (examplesare fine arts, robotics, yearbook, health—some combo of which are required), APs in 10th are heavily gated, options are APGov or compgov, APMicro or macro(semester courses, no need to take both), APStat(have to be in concurrent Honors precal in 10th, about 1/3 of the grade is , and have to have B+’in prior maths); and APChem(hardest: less than 10% of the grade approved after HonChem in 9th, more are allowed in in 11th or 12th if honors sciences or other APs go well), APES(hard to get into in 10th but not nearly as hard as chem so it is taken by the sciency top kids who do not get into AP Chem in 10th—APES is open to all students by 12th. APHys1 (used to be called HonorsPhysics) is an option in 10th , often concurrent w APChem, for 1-2 kids per year, just for those who love Science challenge, as an option. The “normal” time for APphys1 is 11th: 40% if the grade gets in, the rest take regular Physics).
About 35-40% of the class takes at least one AP semester in 10th. APs in 9th not offered other than APStat if one is in honors precal in 9th (0-5 kids per year) and the 8th grade math teacher offers it to the student(D23 was only the 2nd kid in 5 years to do it—we didnt know it was an option, 8th grade tchr mentioned it to her).
By the end of 11th gr the average kid has completed 2-3 APs, the top 1/4 have completed 4 APs, less than a handful of kids have completed 7-8.
By the end of 12th, the average kid has completed 4 APs, the top 1/4 7-8 and less than 5% 10-12.
The HS(test-in private):
30-35% matriculation to highly selective schools(top30 unis or top15LACs); 4-6% matriculation to Elite schools(Top10/ivy).
APChem, APPhysC, BC calculus, APUSH. The first 2 are the most heavily gated and no unhooked kid ever in the last 8 yrs has gotten into an elite without at least one of those 2 (plus BC and Apush)and the vast vast majority of unhooked elite admissions take both of those sciences(and BC, APush, etc). Teachers who teach the prereqs and act as the gate strongly encourage the best students to take them if invited, as does college counseling. The conversations are with the students not the parents. It is not a stem school, but the stem education is amazing as is the overall writing and college prep: my D21 has found her top10 much easier than other students from various school backgrounds, and credits her challenging HS.
By reputation at my D’s HS, it was AP Physics C, AP chem, AP Language and Lit (taught by the same teacher), and AP Euro/APUSH (again, the same teacher).
I think her entire AP calc class got 5s on the exam and thought the class was easy, but I think that was a lot of self selection on the parts of the students. Only the strongest math students were in the AP calc track.
Her school didn’t offer the typically considered “easy” APs. No APES, Human Geography, Psych, etc…
I think what AP class is the hardest depends on the school and teacher. Our two hardest (by reputation) are APUSH - an outstanding teacher/lots of work and AP Physics C & M. The AP calc classes are largely self selecting and small - there is 100% pass rate and all kids pass with a 4/5 (mostly 5). Our school offers 20+ APs but kids are limited to 4 per year and can’t take them until junior year so 8 would be the max. We are in MA where suburban schools are typically very strong so the lack of 10+ APs hasn’t hurt students - either in preparation (kids tend to do very well in college) or in admissions (about 15% of the class will go to a T50/SLAC including a handful of Ivies every year). Many MA high schools run things similarly in terms of AP yet we are putting out extremely strong students (as a state) so I don’t think the lack of high numbers of APs, in and of itself, means anything.
On paper, our school does not offer AP CS A, they call it Advanced CS. They say they cannot label as AP because it’s a one trimester class. The teaching is really done at CS 1 and CS 2, which are separate electives. Adv is the next class in the sequence, in the spring, and it is mostly reviewed/refraining of the material for the AP exam. All 3 terms combined, the teacher has curriculum flexibility, while at the same time getting everyone ready for the exam.
Our school requires you to take 7 classes each year. The AP Econ class at our yr HS does have 2 AP exams.
For us, H Pre-Calc is much harder than AP Calc. Significant weeding out happens.
H Spanish 3 is also the hardest, usually followed by H Spanish 4 and then AP. At that point the AP class is primarily review. Almost everyone gets a 4 or a 5 and the kids are mostly fluent.
@CMA22 this is precisely why AP classes were started. They were designed to give advanced kids a less expensive avenue to and through college. Statistics now show that like well over 60% of kids take AP classes. That is not how the programs were designed.
At our school we take 7 classes per semester. Core classes are year long. AP classes are year long. My DD has taken between 8-9 classes per year.
6 classes at the HS my kid went to.
High school #1, private, 7 classes, no study halls.
High school #2, public, 7 classes + study hall for lowerclassmen, upperclassmen can vary from 6 to 8 classes. Caveat, taking more unweighted classes pulls down the weighted GPA and, accordingly, can affect quartile rank.
Econ: both teach micro and macro as separate semester-long courses. Students can take one course without the other.
Physics C: both teach physics C as a year-long course. Students can choose to take the mechanics exam, the E&M exam, or both exams.
Gov: private has separate semester classes for AP gov, can take one course without the other. I think at the public, it is a year-long course.
Neither high school requires students to take the corresponding AP exams. Both require the students to pay for the exams.
Tiger parents will find ways around it by enrolling their kids in online college classes, or signing up for summer programs that will earn college credit, but it could still reduce the pressure for a significant segment of students.
Which will lead to a new set of challenges, since no college, or at least none of the oft-mentioned colleges on this site, are interested in one-dimensional academic wonks.
That’s a strong statement (offered without evidence) that I personally disagree with.
Sure, a superstar Asian kid with great grades, test scores, etc. is not a shoe-in to Harvard. But add/switch to some assortment of hooks (whether you like them or not) - URM, legacy, development, etc., and elites will be VERY interested in the kid.
And one-dimensionality is bad? You think MIT doesn’t like Math olympiad superstars or the like? Obviously, if a kid knocks it out of the park in, say, Math, but gets a 420 verbal SAT, then that’s not great. But such cases are rare. More commonly, the math superstar is also pretty strong in other academic areas, too.
You left out the “academic” part when you opted to incorrectly paraphrase me. I was referring to the kid that does nothing but coursework. Math Olympiad is an EC
Well, I interpret “one-dimensional academic wonk” a little differently from you. You’re using the phrase to mean something I would label more as “grade grubber”.
To me, academics encompasses more than classwork, and a “one-dimensional academic wonk” is more like a single-subject specialists, but with the specialty applied broadly (to include IMO, say, for a math wonk).
Going back to your broader point, which is that colleges wouldn’t be too excited about a kid who took a number of online college classes, perhaps to get around in-school imposed restrictions, again I don’t particularly degree, but I have less to point to to settle our disagreement - it’s more speculative. If I were an admissions officer, I would generally be pleased to see “above and beyond” level work.
I think, if anything, the negative vibe on this (sort of “super grade grubber, who grubs with college-level courses”) is a sort of looking-down on achievements primarily be Asian students. A variation of “sure he has great grades, great test scores, and lots of evidence of very hard work. But, yaknow, his personality score isn’t so great…”