<p>similar scholarship offer - meaning a full tuition offer at other schools.</p>
<p>Called NMSC today. Still no letter, but they told me over the phone - appeal denied. Looks like 2 Cs is a definite no, no matter what the reason or how close they are. Wish they would just say that up front. And that’s what my letter to NMSC is going to say, along w/ how unfair it is to compare “regular” courses to the AP load that some are taking.</p>
<p>Sorry about your news, axomom, I feel your pain. Here’s hoping someone has better luck.</p>
<p>Just wanted to add a quick thought. We are in the same boat. 2 C’s in AP classes with documented reason. I did not appeal. However, I would like to recommend we flood National Merit with letters.</p>
<p>I have 2 younger children that also test off the charts and take very hard classes. I am supposed to decide this year whether my youngest (5th grader) should take regular math next year or go on to pre algebra putting her on the course to have Calc BC in 11th grade (one of the classes my NMSF got a C in) I am going to say no. Although she will be bored silly in regular math, and completely unchallenged, it will be an easy A. The thought that putting her on this course in 6th grade could sink her 6 years from now is appalling to me, so we will take the easy road this time. THAT IS SICK and should be the exact thing that NM and other scholarship companies should be discouraging not encouraging!</p>
<p>SO…write those letters, and let them know!</p>
<p>I agree that we should let NMSC realize the unfairness of its current practice. Many non-NMSFs are more academically prepared to succeed in higher education than some of the NMSFs.</p>
<p>However, I would not withhold my 6th grader in the regular math just for the sake of National Merit scholarship. Who knows what changes of NMSC would be made in 6 years? It is clear that the NM scholarship offers have been trimmed by quiet a few colleges in the past years. Many colleges only offer to their in-state students or just opt out. We also see many non-NMSF students with good stats can get tuition-free offers from colleges.</p>
<p>My oldest child went to the most selective high school in our state and he became an average student there. If he had stayed in his local high school, he could have been the valedictorian and have better chances to be admitted to the prestigious universities that offer generous financial aid. Should I send my second child who is equally bright to the same high school knowing that he will not be the best student there and therefore be denied to the top schools? If getting into certain colleges is my only concern, I will not send him to repeat his brother’s path. However, my older child did learn a lot more in the selective high school and enjoyed his experiences there. Because our family value learning more than college application results, I think my second child probably will choose to attend the “harder” high school to learn more rather than being complacent with easy A+s in his currrent school. </p>
<p>From my personal observation, some bright kids who are not properly challenged tend to become lazy and disinterested in school and invest their time/energy on unproductive stuff.</p>
<p>nicollec -
I would think hard before putting your child in advanced math classes so early. My D was skipped ahead two years in math during middle school so started high school in Algebra 2. She was a bit intimidated by older classmates and she never really recovered her sense of confidence in math until this year (senior). She didn’t do well in Calculus (C) and I think that’s what sunk her NMF status. It’s hard to know how kids will do in high school - you really can’t assume that because they are going gangbusters in math in elementary or middle school that they will continue to give it that effort in high school. As meliora said many gifted kids become very lazy and disinterested in school.
I think it’s wise to keep them challenged of course, but give them some breathing room. I wish I had let her take a more normal track with math - she very well may have wanted to take some harder math classes in sophomore or junior years instead of hating them.</p>
<p>As far as writing to NM - I agree! I’m not sure if they were a lot stricter this year or the competition was more fierce, but either way, it seems as if a lot of kids who could have fully expected to advance based on past criteria were not this year.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, in some school systems (like ours) you have to make the decision to enter the advanced math track while still in middle school and that’s the only opportunity you have to eventually enroll in the AP Calc classes. Students who enter HS on the regular track will only advance to Trigonometry their senior year. It might be a better option to take the opportunity for the advanced track now, and drop back to the regular track later on in HS if the student finds themselves struggling. Personally, I’d rather have the option for my child and give them the chance as opposed to completely bypassing it altogether.</p>
<p>I haven’t found a top 20 school that honors a NMF. If wrong please tell me which school. Considering the amount of schools that have dropped it. The NM schoarship seems to be dying.</p>
<p>No, not dying. Still being offered by many schools.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that the Top 20s are finding that it’s just a waste of their energy to be offering token $2k or so scholarships. These are “full need” schools. Why bother going thru the efforts of processing NMF scholarships when most of those students will be receiving at least that much in aid anyway.</p>
<p>Has anyone had success with their appeals? </p>
<p>I’m very put off by the NMC comment about the death in the family and that they’re sure that the school made accomodations. Oh really? I know that at my kids’ high school, one teacher refused to make any accomodations when we had a similar experience and son rec’d a D on a Midterm exam (which happened days after the death which involved a quick “back and forth” cross-country trip.). Thankfully, his semester grade ended up being a B, but that was only because his earlier grades in that class were perfect. </p>
<p>NMC should not be assuming that all teachers give accommodations for family situations. Certainly, when a students other grades (before/after a situation) are excellent, then clearly exceptions weren’t likely made. There are some hard-xxx teachers out there that would expect a student to sit for an exam while bleeding thru every orifice.</p>
<p>
Uhhhhh… excuse me while I vomit. You’re not letting your child take a class that will challenge and probably interest her, based on the microscopic chance that in 6 years she might get a bad grade in one math class and she might score well on her PSAT and she might need good grades to qualify for NMF. Why not encourage her to enjoy learning so that she gets good grades and enjoys getting good grades? I hope you realize that challenging classes are a huge part of being prepared for the PSAT when it comes around… In 6 years, your daughter may have been inadequately prepared or have become so apathetic due to lack of rigor in school that she doesn’t score high enough for NMSF anyway. Wow. Just wow.</p>
<p>unicameral, I think you’re overreacting. The parent probably will talk with her daughter and let her choose whatever math class. </p>
<p>I personally believe that challenging classes are definitely NOT a huge part in preparing for the PSAT. Some tough classes just have poor teachers and/or silly, time-consuming homework.</p>
<p>Also, I think that this parent would increase her daughter’s chances more by showing her good habits as a student when she reaches high school and by researching effective Calc prep books.</p>
<p>
I don’t think so. There are pros and cons of tough classes, but considering NMF qualification at that stage is ridiculous.
Doesn’t sound like it…
In any case, I don’t think it should necessarily be discussed at length. I am incredibly grateful that my parents “forced” me to do thinks at a young age that set me up to achieve greater successes than I could have on my own. You have no idea how many tantrums I threw to get out of taking gifted classes in middle school. But thankfully my parents had more foresight than 12 year old me did. 
Very young children should not be making important decisions about their futures. Who cares about 6 years from now? At this moment the kid has a knack for math. It’s so much easier to drop back than to get ahead later.</p>
<p>So unicameral2013 has found someone else to bash…is that why you are here? Good to know that you have so much “wisdom”, earned by all your life experiences to date.</p>
<p>Speaking as a math teacher with 24 years experience, I think it does depend on the kid. There IS such a thing as an extremely smart child who is not developmentally ready for advanced math. My oldest was two years ahead in math, and honestly, he might have made poorer grades in regular math classes because he is easily bored. Still, he did 5 math classes and decided he was done - he doesn’t have a math his senior year. His choice, but I think a poor one. The middle child makes perfect scores on math standardized tests, but doesn’t care for the subject. He stayed on the regular track and will have Algebra I pre-AP - so it’s weighted, but not “ahead”. It think that was the best choice for him. The instruction in the pre-AP will be more indepth, and he should be just as prepared for the PSAT - it doesn’t have Calculus on it, for heavens sake! The youngest? She tests higher than the oldest…she will have pre-AP Algebra I as an 8th grader…after that, we’ll see.</p>
<p>I am here to learn about the college admissions process and share my opinion where I want. You can disagree (but reading your post, I don’t think you do), but I don’t think that a moderately unfortunate experience for one child (1 C in calc) should translate to: oh, accelerating in math will stop my child from being NMF. So we can’t do it, end of story. Which is just plain not true. I will reiterate that it is unfortunate that your children received 1 too many Cs to get NMF. But as we discussed in the other thread, that does not mean “AP tests are evil” “accelerating in math is evil” “NMSC is evil” and all these other ridiculous things. MAYBE, instead of saying “oh it’s too difficult lets just quit and scrape by with the minimum” the parent could say “it’s difficult, but it should be a fun challenge. If you feel overwhelmed let me know and we can try tutoring, and you can always drop back.” Really, what sort of example is being set by effectively telling your child, 5 years in advance, that you don’t think she can be successful in Calculus? Come on now.</p>
<p>unicameral2013, I simply disagree with the way you talk to parents here, parents who love their children and are concerned for their futures. I’m assuming you don’t have children of your own. Things will look different if/when you do…</p>
<p>Knowing that Calculus knocks down the GPA/rank of the majority of students who take it, and that if they don’t intend to go into a math/science related field they may never even take it in college IS a consideration…yes, 5 years ahead. Especially at a HS that offers weighted grade Algebra I. Same credit as Calculus…and I’ve always advised my students (who were in geometry in 8th grade) that unless it is a money issue, take Calculus again in college instead of taking the AP credit anyway.</p>
<p>PS This thread is/was about the NMF appeals process. I will be sending my letter to NMC, from the viewpoint of a parent and a teacher.</p>
<p>
If you don’t want advice, don’t post on a public forum. All I’m saying is that I would’ve had major resentment towards my parents and would be a heck of a lot worse off if they had taken the attitude of “go for the easy A, don’t challenge yourself.” Actually, if they had said that I would’ve worked harder just to spite them. Why wouldn’t you encourage your child to work to their potential? I’m honestly really confused by this mentality of just scraping by that everyone seems to have, what happened to being the best you can?
She’s not signing up for calculus, she’s signing up for pre algebra. It is beyond easy to drop back once you’re on the accelerated track. Why not even let her try, if she’d be “bored to tears” in regular math? She can decide to take calc or not when she gets there.
Care to cite that? I would be very surprised if it were true for kids taking Calc in 11th grade or earlier. These kids are already clearly very good at math, and Calc shouldn’t be too much of a hurdle. It certainly wasn’t true for me and many other students I know.</p>
<p>I finally got to see the “rejection of appeal” letter and am even more disgusted with National Merit. They commented that while my child’s 7th semester grades were wonderful, this did not make up for the previous grades (remember- one C and one C+ while dealing with a death in the family, medically diagnosed and treated depression and changing schools). Now why am I disgusted? The letter was written before they received the 7th semester grades. Our semester did not end until January 30, transcripts were not sent until Feb 14 and the letter was written on Feb 7. I have confirmed with the school that they never sent Nat Merit the grades, instead told them that they would send them as soon as available and that when they got the rejection letter before they were available, they didn’t send them as it was too late.</p>
<p>I know some of you think that NM scholarships don’t matter. For our family they do. I work for a company that gives NM scholarships to all children of employees who are finalist. My child was wanting to go to a school that is only affordable with this scholarship plus the one that was offered by the school to finalist. Now he has neither and if the government budget shut down occurs, my husband will be furloughed. We are now scrambling to get an application in to the Community College. Not where we thought we would be at this point in our lives.</p>
<p>WOW! I guess I opened a can of worms here, and unicameral2013 was the early bird, LOL!!
Yes unicameral2013 I am a loving and concerned parent, and no, I dont’ want to subject my children to a mediocre education for the ultimate goal of making NMF. HOWEVER, there is MUCH more here than meets the eye, and of course if I open this can, it should probably be on another thread, but oh well, here goes…</p>
<p>NMF is critical to us. We are in the “donut hole” of college. Laugh if you will, but we make too much to qualify for need-based aid, but certainly not enough to pay for each of our 4 children full freight. Before you start, yes, it was our choice to have 4 children, and our choice to spend 10 years in the military not making as much money as we make private sector now, BUT the way the current system is set up, we are penalized in a MAJOR way. Without merit aid, much of which is contingent upon NM status, our college choices are limited to 2 years JUCO 2 years in-state school, no help w/ grad school. No, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is not always the best choice for every child, and WHY should that be our only choice?</p>
<p>SO, here in lies the problem:
- A school’s ranking should not be based on the number of students that scored highly on a single test.
- Aid should not be based solely on that test.
- It is common for kids that test, score, and rank lower than others, but demonstrate more need to have higher rates of acceptance to some schools, and significantly more scholarship money. And because this policy, and all the “free federal grant money” college is simply unaffordable for the average citizen.
- An A in a regular class is equally weighted with an A in a college level class at many schools, disincentivizing kids from taking the tougher course load.
- Lastly, in my situation, once you are on an advanced Math track, (determined in 6th grade!) The only way off that track is to repeat the class you just took.</p>
<p>Yes tutoring can be of assistance, but please let me remind you that it may not be affordable, or available in all cases.</p>
<p>Lastly, the jab from unicameral2013
“thankfully my parents had more foresight than 12 year old me did. Very young children should not be making important decisions about their futures. Who cares about 6 years from now? At this moment the kid has a knack for math. It’s so much easier to drop back than to get ahead later.” </p>
<p>This “foresight” could end up making or breaking my DD 6 years from now, it is a chess game, and the move we make now WILL impact the roads that are available to her 6 years from now, that is what I feel is SO unfortunate and frankly unfair.</p>
<p>axomom
I am so sorry to hear your appeal was rejected. This was a very unique year, and frankly gives pause for evaluation.</p>
<p>axomom - very sorry to hear about your situation. Is there any way to appeal to the college your child was hoping to attend for more financial aid? Are there other, possibly affordable choices other than the community college (not to knock community colleges) - like a good state school system? There are also some smaller colleges with rolling admission that actually give good aid to students with good test scores and overall grades. Perhaps if you haven’t yet, you can look at those. Good luck! I’m sure it will all work out down the road, but seems very hard now.</p>