<p>My D had lower than a B+ average- but attended one of the most academic schools in the country, with students whose GPA and SAT were both significantly higher than hers.
Its hard to say if she still would be admitted today-
Some schools are looking at applicants individually, but many still rank by numbers-
I think this is also made more difficult because while my daughter only applied to 5 schools, (knowing she was already in at 4 from the year before)
many applicants are applying to 10 or more, so I wonder if there will be a lot more movement on wait lists than in the past</p>
<p>Don't count on more movement on the waitlists. Adcoms are pretty good at being able to estimate yield and usually want to avoid taking many from the waitlists. Last year quite a few well known schools took no WL applicants. I am sure no one on a WL wants to hear this, but it might be better to consider the odds and move on.</p>
<p>S is one of those B+ kids applying to quite a few schools. His academically rigorous HS typically sends lots of kids to the Ivies, but those are the non-B+ ones. He was terrified he wouldn't get in anywhere. Now with three acceptances he can relax a little and wait for the rest of the decisions. I personally think there will be a LOT of movement in the spring, since of course kids can only attend one school.</p>
<p>Well then I will ask a follow up ?
Are schools running larger waitlists than in the past?
I had never heard of schools offering January admits before I came onto CC, but that seems to be getting more popular-
I would be concerned however, with what aid is avaliable, if you don't start in the fall- are schools reserving aid for later entering students?</p>
<p>GoBlueAlumMom, I wish I could get my D to look at schools further away. She doesn't want to go anywhere involving a plane ride which is odd because she flies alone all the time. I have 2 kids; my 17 year old and a 4 year old. I think the 17 year old wants to be away but close enough for us to bring her sister to a football game or something... If we get all deferrals from the 4 EA schools, maybe she'll broaden her search. So far, 2 deferrals with 2 more to go. Oh, part of the problem was finding a school with photography. She is insisting on at least minoring in that. A lot of schools have a few courses but that's it. And, she doesn't want to go to an art school.</p>
<p>So for your D (as for mine), it seems like the problem is not that it's harder for B+ students generally, but that it's harder for those that also have restrictive selection criteria. My d also didn't want to fly (she hates flying), and needed a school that would allow her to dance without doing a lot of modern. </p>
<p>And there wouldn't be an easy answer for that situation.</p>
<p>Chevda,
I think you are spot on. There's absolutely nothing wrong with setting selection criteria - in fact, that's part and parcel with the search. But every set of "must haves" limits your admissions options, especially if your "must haves" limit you to east of Philadelphia.</p>
<p>shoshi - I agree with your post 100%. My D is only (only?!) applying to six schools, but they're all ones that she's interested in, and that have her proposed major (which has since changed, natch). Her GC assures me she is a "cinch" for all the schools, but I have my doubts, especially since she is probably going to get a "C" in AP Calc (along with most of her class). </p>
<p>FWIW, on one of our scouting trips this past April, D sat in on a class at a college in the NW that I consider fairly prestigious. She didn't feel the curricula was beyond her, only that she wasn't familiar with what had gone before in the class. I'm pretty confident that she'll do well, academically, in any of the schools she's applied to.</p>
<p>Now, as for what she's going to do when faced with SNOW....</p>
<p>Freshstart, I don't know that it is that B or B+ students can't get into good schools, it's that schools that seemed to be matches just a year or two ago have been so inundated with applications from more highly qualified applicants that they have become "reach schools" virtually overnight. While my daughter has been admitted to 4 schools, she was also waitlisted at two schools that probably would have admitted her based on 25/75 percentile GPA and ACT scores reported by U.S. News. However, those numbers are now two years old, and the prevalance of the common application, as well as the increase in the number of applicants, has changed the game.</p>
<p>I think schools in the northeast have been particularly affected by this phenomenon. These schools, in general, get more applications and admit a lower percentage of applicants than their academic equivalents in other parts of the country, particularly the midwest and the south. If your daughter would consider schools outside the northeast, she might might find the sledding easier.</p>
<p>In helping my daughter construct her list, we consciously "reached down" to find schools similar to those that may have been matches previously. We also looked at schools where her background and interests might make her stand out. So, while she was deferred by Knox (we live in suburban Chicago and Knox gets many applicants from here), she was admitted at Gustavus Adolphus and Wittenberg, both excellent schools for her.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your daughter.</p>
<p>Hey, it's not just the B+ students; it's the A students too. Last year, my son was rejected at a top state school (as an OOS student) with numbers that were easily in Ivy range, leadership ECs (including Eagle Scout) and sports. As expected, he was also rejected from the one Ivy he applied to. He worked very hard in high school, taking a high number of APs in his junior and senior year. Silver lining? He is happy where is he is, even though it was his third- maybe even fourth choice. He's also not over stressed with his studies since he was very well prepared after taking such tough classes in high school.<br>
I agree that there are MANY good schools out there. Go in with realistic expectations and apply to at least two schools that are close to a sure bet.<br>
And don't get caught up in "brand names". Quality doesn't always match up to prestige. Good luck!</p>
<p>I view it as a rising tide which lifts all boats. There are just more kids graduating from high school than ever before; given the same bell curve of academic ability and no increase in the number of top colleges, every school is able to choose a more select class of students than they admitted just five years ago. Which means that the college that took the A- students then takes the A students now, The "B+" school now admits A- students, etc. But the students still end up with about the same cohort of fellow students at the schools they end up at, and I feel pretty confident about the ability of the professors to adjust the level of their instruction up to meet a higher caliber of student. End result? That B+ college from five years ago is an A- college now, etc. It's just a matter of adjusting expectations to meet current realities, instead of the realities of the not-that-distant past.</p>
<p>kluge, overall I would agree. I do think there is another contributing factor. The current generation of kids seems to have a lot more dedication and drive. Those of us who grew up in the 60's and 70's were a lot more laid back. At least we were back then during the age of aquarius.</p>
<p>'The age of aquarius' had me very mellow - went to Berkeley then - today I'd be deferred from podunk state u... these poor kids.</p>
<p>Anxiety, fear and dread masquarade as drive and determination in the current generation.</p>
<p>Read the book 'Crazy Busy' and get a sense of what this is all doing to our kids, and to us...and then truly think about whether this is what you want for ourselves and our children.</p>
<p>They are not 'poor kids'- but they haven't enough balance (and I am not talking about being well rounded)....</p>
<p>It's painful when S or D's top school suddenly become hot, as Fordham certainly seems to have done. But the bigger picture is that
overall only 1% or so more students are entering 4-year colleges each year until about 2009 (when the numbers begin to decline).</p>
<p>Most colleges are seeing "hard" applications going up in line with that number, with most of the additional increases attributable to "soft" numbers caused by increasing use of the common app, on-line apps, fee waivers, etc. (I.e., applications numbers will go up, but yields will go down correspondingly.)</p>
<p>If you're willing to look outside the top 25-30 universitites and LACs, there are many schools that would be delighted to have bright, dedicated A-/B+ students.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your responses. I was so frustrated yesterday after having spent so much time researching schools and coming up with what we thought were reasonable target schools only to be surprised the "numbers". So far my D has 2 deferrals which I pointed out to her was a good thing given the numbers. We will be coming up with 2 more schools to apply to in February. Have a nice holiday!</p>
<p>I agree with the sentiment that there's no need for tears - the B+ student will be surrounded by similar achievers and if they end up at a school that hasn't been on anyone's radar, wait til next year - and it will be a talked about school because of the strength of the incoming students.</p>
<p>I had to laugh when I read about the drive and determination of this generation of students vs. that of the age of aquarius. I got a visual of my parents' peers hovering over a computer at 6 in the morning to read up on college admissions (pure fantasy). Is it rear wheel drive we're talking about here, or front wheel drive?</p>
<p>And another encouraging angle for those students, like OP's D's friends, who get caught in the crossfire at a place like Fordham, where applications increase dramatically: Imagine working in the admissions office at Fordham; you try a new application strategy and the EA figures soar. They're probably delighted on the one hand, and terrified on the other, because things have become unpredictable. They don't really know how many of those applications are "soft" and were just thrown in because it was so easy or how many are basically students who would've been in the RD pool in the past. In their shoes, the reasonable thing to do would be "when in doubt, defer," so that decisions get made with more information in the spring. I bet lots of those kids will be getting good news come spring and that Fordham's selectivity will not have made some sort of quantum leap.</p>
<p>If the application numbers increase, won't the apparent selectivity (accepts/applicants) indeed soar, unless they are prepared to accept a proportionately increased number of students? While this might be advisable, given that many of the applications may be indeed be soft, I doubt that they would be willing to risk "overbooking" and getting a freshman class they can't handle.</p>
<p>Lot's of schools overbook.I think most believe it's better than underbooking.
One large private I know of puts "overflow" students up in hotels. One large state school I know had a record number of applications last year, accepted based on prior years formulas and was seriously overbooked. Picture lots of kids in dorm lounges. The number of kids applying to top 50 schools is overwhelming and I think admissions offices are having a hard time figuring out yields in this new environment.
My neighbor's daughter applied ED to a private school that many top students apply to as a safety - just to avoid the crush of applications from these top kids in the RD process. She made it in so she's happy. But things are a bit out of control.</p>