Applied Math, PreMedical

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Rochester
1

<p>I will be enrolling at Rochester this fall. My interests are in the medical sciences - especially the study of communicable diseases. However, I will start as an applied math major (focusing in biology), as I love math, and it is my strength. I was wondering - is this a "good" path to take? I applied as a biology major but now want to start as a math major. Does Rochester have a good math department? I have looked up the research opportunities at the University, but have absolutely no idea where to begin this year. </p>

<p>Is it wise to stick to math as a major, while on a pre-med track? how early should I engage in research? </p>

<p>Thank you so much in advance! Sorry if these questions are stupid, or the answers are obvious. I would just prefer to have a strong start to my pre-medical route and have external viewpoints of my chosen route. :)</p>

2

<p>I can’t address all your questions but if you have an interest in statistics, then you definitely have a path in the medical field, independent of UR. </p>

<p>I know the department has a track for mathematics in biology. I’d look into that. It includes genetics, stats, biological modeling, etc.</p>

3

<p>You will meet with your advisor during orientation, and you can start asking questions there. Rochester also has a pre-med advising office ([Health</a> Professions : College Center for Advising Services : University of Rochester](<a href=“Applying to Health Professions Programs : University of Rochester”>Applying to Health Professions Programs : University of Rochester)) who will be able to help you.</p>

<p>The major for which you applied is irrelevant; all students in the school of Arts & Sciences are officially “undeclared” upon enrolling. You don’t declare a major until the end of your sophomore year. You still will have a lot of choices available to you.</p>

4

<p>I sent you a PM. </p>

<p>D2 is a recent UR’s grad, currently applying to med school, who was an applied math major. D1 is a current MS3 (3rd year med student)–she also was a math major in college.</p>

<p>Math majors as a group score the highest on the MCAT </p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/2012factstable18.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/2012factstable18.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>~~~~</p>

<p>There is a applied math (biological track) at UR.</p>

<p>[BA</a> in Math, Tracks](<a href=“http://www.math.rochester.edu/undergraduate/degrees/BA-tracks.html#mathbio]BA”>http://www.math.rochester.edu/undergraduate/degrees/BA-tracks.html#mathbio)</p>

<p>I would recommend waiting to get involved in research until you have:</p>

<p>1) useful math skills (stats, Excel scripting, MatLab programming)
2) useful lab skills (after you’ve completed gen chem & intro bio labs)</p>

<p>If you have any specific questions–post them and I’ll see if I can answer them for you.</p>

5

<p>I have two sons who are at UR studying math. They’ve been extremely happy with the profs there - both in terms of coursework and being receptive to discussions, extra work, writing letters of rec, and research.</p>

6

<p>Thank you all! </p>

<p>@Lergnom: I have! The BA track looks quite good.
@Chedva: Looking forward to it. I’d like to outline chosen classes though.
@WOWM: I have read your message. I will PM back once I can - I need to have 15 or so posts before I have that ability.
@PinotNoir: That’s great! Seems like a good math department, with excellent support.</p>

7

<p>@WOWM, I’ll just post my reply here. LOL</p>

<p>Firstly, thank you for your detailed response. I really appreciate it. <em>deep breath</em></p>

<p>As I mentioned, my interests lie in the study of communicable diseases and math. But I am very unsure as to what I should do with my four years at UR. I know definitely that I want to be a medical doctor, having volunteered at a hospital. However, I did quite well my HS economics classes and got two 5’s on the AP exams. I am thinking of double majoring in applied math in biology and economics. I can handle the courseload, it just becomes a matter if it is a wise thing to do for a medical route. The thing is, Rochester is “world class” at the biological sciences and economics - but “good” in math. If I don’t get into medical school (I am an international), I think a math major and economics major still holds doors for other graduate schools. </p>

<p>I looked at the BA track for applied math and it includes statistics classes. I think that would interest me, doing statistical analysis for research groups. However, as I understand - that is not research into medical areas such as virology. Do medical schools prefer specific research into biology, or would doing the mathematical/statistical analysis for research groups suffice? I am lost at this research aspect. (sorry) </p>

<p>What is “soc?” </p>

<p>Hmm… I will definitely do that. Could I PM you back a rough outline of my “roadmap?” If that is okay, that would be great. Would economics my humanities cluster? </p>

<p>As you can probably tell, I am completely lost. Thanks for helping!</p>

8

<p>Once you get on campus, talk to profs and email profs describing your interests and what kind of research you envision participating in. It’s a very easy place to network - just approach the profs and stay focused on your interests.</p>

9

<p>Soc=sociology</p>

<p>The new 2015 MCAT will have a human behavior section that includes topics in sociology, psychology and medical ethics.</p>

<p>See description here: <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/testsections/[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/testsections/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Economics would be a social science. </p>

<p>Humanities would be things like: philosophy, literature, art, dance, music, foreign languages, religion, etc.</p>

<p>Your area of interests sounds more like epidemiology or public health than medical school to me. In truth, most physicians do very little of either [epidemiology or public health]. Most are direct patient care providers. Unless you want to be a direct patient care provider, you may want to reconsider medical school. Or at least think about MD/PhD.</p>

<p>Epidemiology typically requires a PhD; public health a MPH.</p>

<p>Medical schools don’t especially care what your research field as an undergrad is. D1 did medium energy particle physics research. Adcomms only want you to have some hands on direct experience with either basic lab or clinical research so that you have a good grasp on the frustrations, limitations and politics of the research process. (The belief is that it makes you a more critical judge of the quality of published research.) </p>

<p>As an international, your options for medical school will be severely limited since many medical schools will not consider internationals for admission. In addition to that, **US medical schools<a href=“except%20for%204%20extremely%20competitive%20private%20schools”>/b</a> do not provide financial aid for international students. Not even loans. Many schools will require you to place 1-4 years of tuition and living expenses in an US escrow account as condition of matriculating.</p>

<p>See: [Medical</a> School Admissions Policies Towards Non-US Citizens](<a href=“Home - NAAHP”>Home - NAAHP)</p>

<p>Also see: <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/2012factstable4.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/2012factstable4.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In 2012, fewer than 200 internationals matriculated into any US medical school. There are approx 19,000 available medical school seats each year and last year there were approx 65,000 applicants.</p>

<p>The difficulties will continue into medical residency and licensing. Only 21 states will license internationals. And a good many residency programs will not consider internationals since they will not or cannot sponsor HB1 visas. </p>

<p>~~~~</p>

<p>Math in medicine or biological research is a very hot field right now. Bioinformatics, biocomputation, mathematical modeling of non-linear biological systems, as well as epidemiology. They all require a high level math and computing skills. There’s a growing demand for these skills also in medical nanotechnology and medical instrumentation fields.</p>

<p>~~~~</p>

<p>I’ll look at your roadmap of classes.</p>

<p>I think a double major in econ and applied math is a do-able combination. </p>

<p>I think econ and applied math PLUS pre-med requirements may not be.</p>

10

<p>Med school admission committees don’t care what your major is. Really. They. Do. Not. Care.</p>

<p>Your GPA, sGPA and MCAT score are the primary screening tools used by adcomms. (The higher the better…)</p>

<p>You will not be cut any slack w/r/t your GPA for having a “difficult” major like math, engineering, computer science or [insert name of your idea of a difficult major here].</p>

<p>~~~</p>

<p>But in the end you have to be true to your own interests.</p>

<p>And as everyone above has mentioned–you won’t be asked to declare a major (or two) until your sophomore year. Use your freshman year to explore your interests and options.</p>

11

<p>In today’s world, per my relatives in economics, you should double major in math and econ if you want to get a PhD. You need that level of math knowledge and skill. </p>

<p>Variations on statistics and applied statistics is a burgeoning area. It is the modern era.</p>

12

<p>

Absolutely does. As WOWM mentioned, it’s perfect for epidemiology (literally, the study of epidemics). While an MPH is an excellent degree, many epidemiologists have a PhD, or they are MDs with the MPH. (I have a Masters of Health Sciences because at the time, my school would accept only people with medical/nursing degrees into its MPH program.)</p>

<p>Do you want to do research in public health in virology (how viruses travel, mutate, etc. through populations) or do lab research with viruses? Answering those questions can lead to different career tracks.</p>

13

<p>I think, given the advice, my true interests lie in the MPH/PhD field. Just a brief outline: I will double major in Economics and Applied Math. From then on, I will go on to get my MPH. After that, I get my PhD in epidemiology (@Lergnom). </p>

<p>@WOWM Thanks for the detailed reply. MD looks improbable. I tried to plan out my roadmap, and was only able to plan out my BA Applied Math courses. It just got quite confusing after that. The biology, economics, and math classes clutter my “roadmap” - not to mention the humanities courses I haven’t yet included. I can see it is do-able, however - I have to take 12 MTH/STT classes and I have eight semesters. I don’t know which ones are practical to “double-up.” Sorry :frowning: </p>

<p>@Chedva Yes - I want to to lab research with viruses. Does my double-major plan suit such a career goal? (the MPH-PhD route)</p>

<p>@PinotNoir As a double major, will I have the time to do two different research/internships with the two different department? Should I keep economics? I think, in theory, economics would be good to have because it helps with the economical aspect of health administration. It just is a matter of a cluttered schedule. Any advice? </p>

<p>This is SO confusing and baffling. Sorry, in advance.</p>

14

<p>I think you have a rough plan. Don’t sweat it any more. You haven’t arrived at UR yet. Someone as intense as you will push through to find advisers/research/etc. You’ll figure it out. My point is this: you can’t figure it out now. You can’t. So you are spinning wheels when you could be doing something with more utility to you now. Knowing when questions are ripe is an important part of organizing learning. </p>

<p>Go chill for a while. Or do some other work. </p>

<p>If you want to learn something, pick up some material on Bayesian analysis or how to use r (or other stats tools). Since to my continuing amazement much work is still done using Excel macros (!), learn something about those. That’s actual preparation. Worrying about this other stuff is not.</p>

15

<p>The math dept has very good advising and is very supportive of its students. D2 found the staff quite helpful. They will be happy to answer any questions you have about math coursework.</p>

<p>In any major you’re going to have some semesters where you need to double or triple up major coursework. With her double natural science major, D2 tyically ended up with 3-5 science and math classes each semester.</p>

<p>For now, just think about what you need/want to take to during your first semester.</p>

<p>In applied math, you’ll need to start with the calculus sequence (MTH 161-165) because you really can’t take any upper level math coursework until you complete it. It’s kind of a bottleneck. </p>

<p>You may want to look at the Public Health/Epidemiology major</p>

<p>[Public</a> Health-related Majors : Multidisciplinary Studies Center : University of Rochester](<a href=“http://www.rochester.edu/college/msc/publichealth/majors/epidemiology.html]Public”>http://www.rochester.edu/college/msc/publichealth/majors/epidemiology.html)</p>

<p>and see if that’s something that might interest you.</p>

<p>For epidemiology, a statistic major might make more sense than an applied math major. Different skill set.</p>

16

<p>OP you may want to consider studying Epidemiology as a major. Rochester is one of the few schools in the country that has an epidemiology program for undergraduates. The program is through the publice health program. You can also be pre-med and study epi. My daughter is a senior ar Rochester, she is pre-med and she is an epi major. She also will probably be staying for a fifth year to get her MPH. She has been able to do research and is doing neonatology research at NYU hospital this summer. Her epi background is what landed her the internship. Like you she is unsure where her ultimate career will lead her but she is leaving open the option of either getting her MD or Phd. Also if you wanted to pursue epi as a Phd, the top programs are at Harvard, Emory and North Carolina.</p>

17

<p>@WOWM Would you advise me to take the 171 series? Did your daughters take it? It looks like it would be an interesting challenge.
If I do get my MPH, I can go into virology too right? My options are not limited just to epidemiology? It seems that applied math would help for virology.
@Lergnom Yes, I will definitely relax! Thank you for the advice - very much appreciated.
@Glennu thank you for your input! I am pretty much set on applied math, but it’s interesting that Rochester offers that major. Am quite happy with my choice in schools - Rochester seems to have a thriving research culture.</p>

18

<p>D1 did not attend UR (she graduated from another school); D2 took the 160 series because she originally did not intend to have a math major. She also had advance standing in math (credits for calc 1, 2 & 3) and was advised by the math dept that entering the 170 series at an upper level would be difficult due to the differing approach used by the 170 classes. She opted to use her previous credits and start with MTH 165. Applied math majors can do either the 170 series or 160 series. (The 140 series is a slower-paced introduction to calculus intended mostly for pre-meds.)</p>

<p>By virology–I assume you mean the epidemiological study of how viruses spread. If that’s what you mean, then yes.</p>

<p>If you mean virology as a subfield of microbiology–then no. A PhD in virology as scientific discipline requires an undergrad degree (or at least very strong minor with multiple advanced classes and hands on lab research) in biology/microbiology or biochemistry.</p>

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