At a couple of my daughter’s favorite schools, her scores on at least one section of testing are below the 25th percentile. Given that she is unhooked, I am curious how much other parents would discourage their child from even applying versus letting the student apply with an understanding of the low odds. She has a balanced list otherwise (appropriate matches and safeties). I just think her chances at these super-reaches (sub-20 percent acceptance rate) are likely zilch and wonder when it’s worth the time and money to take a shot.
Whether it is worth it or not is a personal decision. If your daughter has appropriate matches and safeties, understands the low chances for acceptance, is willing to do the essays, and you are willing to pay the fees… then there is no harm in letting her apply.
From our experience, I would tell you not to waste your time unless you daughter had some sort of extremely special talent or amazing accomplishments during high school. That being said, what is your daughter’s GPA and was her hs course curriculum very rigorous? What is her ranking in her class? What are her EC’s? There are some very highly ranked test optional schools that accept kids who are bright, high performing, and accomplished students where test scores are not part of the admissions decision. You’d have to give us more info on those other factors to get better advice.
My daughter applied to four schools where her test and GPA stats were in the 25-50% range but she was rejected by all - although she did get waitlisted at one. She didn’t have any extraordinary accomplishments to show on her application, just pretty standard EC’s and less than avg. stats. She ended up being accepted to a very good school with a 40% acceptance rate where she falls more into the 50-60 % with grades and test scores.
My opinion is that it is a waste of time and money. My children applied to some schools where they were above the 75th percentile. Average hooks like competing at STEM competitions at the national or international level. No acceptances and plenty of wait lists.
I want to add a few things:
- I would advise her not discuss this unless she wants everybody asking her if she got in… and
- If your daughter happens to beat the odds and get accepted, are you able/willing to pay for it? If the answer is no… I would tell her upfront.
Highly unlikely that she would get in. But if you can afford it maybe let her choose one or two school in that range to apply to so she will never have to think "what if?’ I would be sure that she understands that the odds of admission are very slim and she I would have her focus on completing her more realistic applications first.
Unless money was a problem, I would let her apply.
But I would ask her this question: What would she do if she got admitted? Would she be willing to attend a school where most of her classmates would come in with academic qualifications much better than hers? Would she be willing to be at the bottom of the pack and have to work harder than most of her classmates would?
The answers depend on the personality. Some kids would be quite OK with this; others wouldn’t.
My younger son with in the bottom 25% in math and top 25% in critical reading on the SAT at both Tufts and U of Chicago and got into both. He took 2 AP science courses and AP Calc, and had a recommendation from his math teacher that actually probably explained why he didn’t test that well in math. He did fine in whatever mathy/sciency courses he ended up taking in college.
Bingo.
Gretzky: “you miss every shot that you do not take.”
I would also agree that if money is does not need to be part of the end result having one or maybe two super reaches is OK. Part of the college processes is the realization that there is a sort and that is just part of life.
My daughter got into multiple reach colleges where her test scores were somewhat below the 25th percentile mark. (But closee - like a 27 ACT at schools where the 25th percent mark is at 29 ).
The key was knowing her strengths and honing in on the colleges where the strengths would likely be particularly valued. So while she was “unhooked” in the sense that she was not a URM or an athlete, or the daughter of a wealthy donor… she essentially created her own “hook” by offering something the colleges would want.
DD also had very strong grades & class rank - so obviously a capable student who didn’t test well.
So I think you need to ask: putting aside the test scores, what does your daughter have to offer that makes her stand out among other candidates?
Also – are your d’s test scores consistent with her academic interests? My d’s composite was brought down by weaker math & science scores-- but she was clearly a humanities/social sciences applicant, so in that situation I think the schools that admitted her were comfortable giving her a pass on the weak math scores. But I think if she had been a prospective STEM major, that would have been a problem.
I think that’s one thing that is often missed on CC - the application tells a story. The student’s academic history, grades, & test scores need to be consistent with that story.
I agree with @calmom. I would let her apply but help her understand what has to happen to be successful: these schools are turning away students whose stats are well above the 75th-percentile. The schools found a reason to say “no” to those students. A student in the 25th percentile has to give schools a reason to say “yes”.
You say that one score is below 25%, but you don’t say where the other score is. To me the answer to your question depends on whether the other score is just slightly higher or very much higher. My D had very lopsided scores with her reading score being about 200 points over her math score. Her math score was below 25% at 4 of the six schools she applied to, but her reading score was above 75% everywhere. Not only did she get in to all the schools she applied to including one with a 20% acceptance rate, she received $15k merit from one of the schools where her math was below 25%. That really surprised me. If your daughter is similarly lopsided it might be worth taking a chance.
You need to realize that fully 25% of students will be in the bottom quarter. And 10% of the students will be in the bottom 10%. Those students get to be surrounded by others who will likely help them push their limits, unlike that big fish in the small pond. The schools may be a reach but kudos for choosing to stretch oneself. Any school that accepts her assumes she can succeed there.
Of course, being in the bottom 25% of ALL students who take a college ACT or SAT test is different. Many of those students will not go to a four year college.
This is not Lake Woebgone where everyone is above average. Oh- and what do you call the person who graduates last in their medical school class? Doctor.
http://fairtest.org/university/optional lists schools that don’t require or emphasize test scores, many of them top schools
It really depends on whether the school is need blind or not. If it’s one of the ~40 need blind/meets 100% of demonstrated need schools (which are also almost exclusively highly selective) then an unhooked applicant that is in the top-25% has a decent chance - otherwise it’s unlikely in today’s admissions process.
@Chembiodad - If a school is need aware and OP’s daughter would be full pay, then might her chances actually be better at a need aware school?
^ Yes, being full pay can provide a slight boost at such schools in some situations.